Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers. Advi

User avatar
Doc.AElstein
BronzeLounger
Posts: 1499
Joined: 28 Feb 2015, 13:11
Location: Hof, Bayern, Germany

Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers. Advi

Post by Doc.AElstein »

Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers. Advice on getting and using them
Hi
I am asking what experience others have had with obtaining and using operating system discs.
Also I am looking for some advice over my current experience with a computer dealer that is making me a bit nervous.


I am not talking here about trying to install a new system. I am only interested in routinely re installing my present operating system..

The story is this:
For a couple of Months I have been thinking about getting a new computer or Laptop. Over the past few years I have often had problems with viruses, computer being slow, bogged down with unwanted stuff etc.. etc..
I am clued up from the threads here on all the cleaning, security software etc.. etc.. I have some limited experience and success cleaning, running virus checkers etc. etc._...
_..But:
One piece of advice I have often had along the way from experienced computer people is to reinstall the Operating System. ( I do realize this means that all data and programs I install will be lost, - this is acceptable to me)

In fact some professionals say they keep as little as possible on their computer, and then regularly re install the Operating system ( and then necessarily re – install some programs ) as a matter of course.

This seems like a good idea to me. – “Wipe the slate clean and be done with it”. The problem is that I have never had any operation system discs supplied with any computer I have bought over the last few years, even when were new.
Furthermore , all the local dealers and all the dealers in internet that I have spoken to say that operating system discs have not been supplied with new computers for many years.

I finally took the plunge and bought this laptop a couple of days ago:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/391669185869?ul_noapp=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I spoke previously to the seller, who told me “...On the desktop is the recovery folder (if deleted you will find it also in your own files). In this folder, the recovery DVD for Windows 7 and the folder with software and drivers are stored. To burn the Windows 7 DVD, double-click on it and insert a DVD for burning. The folder with software and drivers should also be burnt to DVD or copied to a USB stick…..”
This turned out to be rubbish, - no such data existed.

I wasted most of yesterday in communication with him. Eventually I ended up with ( from a combination of what he told and what he forgot to tell me ) in making a Recovery disc. After adjusting the computer to “look at the disc drive first on starting” , what happens is that if this disc is in then the system re boots from that instead. But it does not re install any software.

He just sent me an Email saying …”…. You can download a Windows 7 DVD from our server under the following link and thus delete and reinstall the entire hard disk:
http://www.laptopia.de/download/bs/W7PRO.iso" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
…. “
I am trying to download that now on a disc on the new computer and an external hard drive connected to my existing computer. It started, but is telling me it needs a few hours to do it. I do not know what or how I should use it finally. It sounds a bit dodgy to me downloading an operating system? I thought these things should be paid for? I am going to re ask the dealer now what I should do with it. On past experience I will probably get an answer in a few hours or on Monday saying something like “ re – install your operating system with it “ !! :hairout:
I have a Month in which I can theoretically send the computer back and get a refund. I am considering that.


So I asking what experience others have with obtaining and using operating system discs?
And also what experience they have of re-installing their existing Operating system?
How did you get your discs, ( or do you have the Operating system stored on something else? ).
What is your opinion of the experience am having with the dealer currently. Does it sound a bit dodgy to you? Do you think I should stick with it or send the thing back and start looking for a computer again , being more insistent on getting the operating discs up front?

Thanks
Alan
I am having difficulty logging in with this account just now.
You can find me at DocAElstein also

User avatar
HansV
Administrator
Posts: 78071
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 00:14
Status: Microsoft MVP
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands

Re: Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers.

Post by HansV »

You could use Belarc Advisor to retrieve the unique 25-character license key for Windows, then download Windows 7 from Microsoft itself: Windows 7-Datenträgerabbilder (ISO-Dateien) herunterladen. You will need the 25-character key for this. Burn the ISO file to a DVD and use the DVD to reinstall Windows.
Best wishes,
Hans

User avatar
Doc.AElstein
BronzeLounger
Posts: 1499
Joined: 28 Feb 2015, 13:11
Location: Hof, Bayern, Germany

Re: Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers.

Post by Doc.AElstein »

HansV wrote:.... use Belarc Advisor.. to retrieve the unique 25-character license key for Windows, .. download Windows 7 from Microsoft itself: ....
Hi Hans,
Thanks
That Belarc stuff is very Handy. It is a bit overwhelming with the massive amount of info it gives. But I found the key. - The Key it shows for my new laptop ties up with what is on the License sticker on bottom of the laptop, which I guess is encouraging.

I presume that the license key is needed so that Microsoft keep track of what / where has the Operating system goes/ is? That sounds reasonable. Does this possibly suggest that the handler’s link could be a bit dodgy? Or possibly ( if it works ) it could be preferable as Microsoft and all the others “spying” on the internet would have less idea about me?

Or do you know or anyone know if I would need the Key anyway at some point during the re instillation?
_ - I ask this as, I have not made any attempt to do the re instillation yet, as I want to have a better idea of what is going on before risking doing something like that.
HansV wrote:.... and use the DVD to reinstall Windows.
Do you or anyone know how the instillation works? _

(- …Yesterday, (to finally get the Recovery disk), I had to do a lot of trial and error by hitting different F_ keys or Esc whilst restarting. It was a nightmare as the new computer has an internal battery which I cannot get access to. The new computer “froze” quite often, and would not react to any key, not even the On/Off button. So I had to wait a several hors for the battery to run down before I could try again! ( Currently I am downloading from the link the handler gave me to 3 places: a USB; an external hard disc; and a DVD. ( It needs about 3GB ). …)

Thanks
Alan
I am having difficulty logging in with this account just now.
You can find me at DocAElstein also

User avatar
HansV
Administrator
Posts: 78071
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 00:14
Status: Microsoft MVP
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands

Re: Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers.

Post by HansV »

The license key is used to verify that you have a legitimate copy of Windows. When you download the ISO file from Microsoft, it is also used to determine exactly which version of Windows should be provided (Home, Professional, ...)

When you burn the ISO file to DVD, it should start the installation program automatically when you insert the DVD.
Best wishes,
Hans

User avatar
Doc.AElstein
BronzeLounger
Posts: 1499
Joined: 28 Feb 2015, 13:11
Location: Hof, Bayern, Germany

Re: Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers.

Post by Doc.AElstein »

Thanks again Hans,

I guess it might be a good idea to download from the Microsoft Link as well. Difficult for someone like me to decide between “doing it right”, whilst trying to minimize how much more I am “registered” and “checked up on”.

Maybe I should treat this new computer as a learning experience. – Then after a few days send it back for a refund. I do not like doing that sort of thing, and rarely do. But the handler has not been to helpful, and a bit misleading. ( The laptop also has a “cheap” feel to it compared with my existing ACER ASPIRE 4810TZG, and strangely does not seem much faster… )

I suppose if the re instillation does go OK, and new laptop did become my main computer, then I would be worth a try to re install Vista on my current computer.. I think however the official Microsoft site for getting a ISO disk from Microsoft are now removed as the support for Vista has ended. :( My own fault I guess for not being brave enough to do it before. :( . I am sure sites offering the Vista ISO download now could be dodgy, and it would be advisable to avoid them.
I can’t help but think that computer “powers that be” make it difficult for you to not accept having to give out money to “update” regularly. :(
OH Well ! Take my frustrations out on snow shoveling while the downloads are still going on
http://www.wwa-webcams.de/ho/p-hof-saale/p-ho-saale.jpg
Alan
I am having difficulty logging in with this account just now.
You can find me at DocAElstein also

User avatar
HansV
Administrator
Posts: 78071
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 00:14
Status: Microsoft MVP
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands

Re: Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers.

Post by HansV »

Windows Vista? That was one of Microsoft's less fortunate efforts, and it's over 10 years old now. You'd be much better off with a later version.
Best wishes,
Hans

User avatar
Doc.AElstein
BronzeLounger
Posts: 1499
Joined: 28 Feb 2015, 13:11
Location: Hof, Bayern, Germany

Re: Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers.

Post by Doc.AElstein »

HansV wrote:Windows Vista? …one of Microsoft's less fortunate efforts, .. over 10 years ... You'd be much better off with a later version.
I seem to remember a while back, before Win 7 took off, that a dealer ( where my computer was for a minor bit of work ) advised me to let him install XP on my laptop instead of the existing Vista.

I still have a fey LG x120's and LG x110's with XP. The problem seems to be using them on the internet. I think as computers get bigger and quicker, then a lot more advertisement gets chucked out to make use of the new speed and space. I guess that makes it harder for older computers to keep up or not get swamped and bogged down.
Once again , I guess you are forced to keep updating. I guess I may have to go to Win 7.
I am having difficulty logging in with this account just now.
You can find me at DocAElstein also

User avatar
HansV
Administrator
Posts: 78071
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 00:14
Status: Microsoft MVP
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands

Re: Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers.

Post by HansV »

Windows 7 was, and still is, an excellent operating system. I use Windows 10 now, and it works well for me.
Best wishes,
Hans

User avatar
Doc.AElstein
BronzeLounger
Posts: 1499
Joined: 28 Feb 2015, 13:11
Location: Hof, Bayern, Germany

Re: Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers.

Post by Doc.AElstein »

Hmm.. The reason I bought through ebay was as all the local Dealers have only Windows 10. I know the initial teething problems with Win 10 seem to be cured now.
If I bought locally I have a better chance of getting them to give me ISO Disk and / or demo a Operating system re install.

But I have heard that many things like older printers will no longer work with Windows 10
I am having difficulty logging in with this account just now.
You can find me at DocAElstein also

User avatar
Doc.AElstein
BronzeLounger
Posts: 1499
Joined: 28 Feb 2015, 13:11
Location: Hof, Bayern, Germany

Re: Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers.

Post by Doc.AElstein »

Just feeding back.. _..
_.. On entering my 25 character product key ( License number for my Operating system ) at the Microsoft Site , I get told this:
….”….The entered product key obviously belongs to software, which was preinstalled by the device manufacturer. For software recovery options, contact your device manufacturer….”…

So looks like it is up to the handler to give me the ISO, which eventually he may have, in a roundabout sort of a way ( via the link to their server that he gave me ), after a lot of asking from me.

Possibly he, or whoever at their end intended to , or should have , put that or the entire file in the , as he put it in a reply before I bought the computer:… ... "..." ... on the desktop there is the recovery folder ......... In this folder, the recovery DVD for Windows 7 and the folder with software and drivers are stored. To burn the Windows 7 DVD, double-click on it and insert a DVD for burning. The folder with software and drivers should also be burnt to DVD or copied to a USB stick ... .. "...

So somewhere along the line they got their knickers in a twist. I have wasted a lot of time to finally get ( half ) of what I should have had.. ( I still have no ..”… folder with software and drivers…”… )

_..The download from the link they gave has finally finished.. so I guess I should give it a go …
:snow: :compute: :overclocking: :fire: :flee: :flee:
I am having difficulty logging in with this account just now.
You can find me at DocAElstein also

User avatar
ChrisGreaves
PlutoniumLounger
Posts: 15383
Joined: 24 Jan 2010, 23:23
Location: brings.slot.perky

Re: Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers.

Post by ChrisGreaves »

Doc.AElstein wrote: ... regularly re install the Operating system ( and then necessarily re – install some programs ) as a matter of course.
Hi Alan. I am one of those people :grin:
I used to use the Christmas break as a quiet time to reformat my hard drive and re-install Windows from an original CD.
I make twin backup copies each night, so I would precede thre annual cleansing by making a separate copy of my data drive, and once Windows was installed, just copy the entire data drive from the backup disk to the computer.

I have found it most helpful to maintain a (MS-Word) document called "Rebuild" with the Sequence of steps I need to perform mechanically to get everything up and running in a short time. PM me with an email address if you'd like to see a full copy.

Cheers
Chris
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
An expensive day out: Wallet and Grimace

User avatar
Doc.AElstein
BronzeLounger
Posts: 1499
Joined: 28 Feb 2015, 13:11
Location: Hof, Bayern, Germany

Re: Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers.

Post by Doc.AElstein »

ChrisGreaves wrote:.. I am one of those people :grin:
....reformat my hard drive and re-install Windows from an original CD.
I make twin backup copies each night, so I would precede thre annual cleansing by making a separate copy of my data drive, and once Windows was installed, just copy the entire data drive from the backup disk to the computer.....e found it most helpful to maintain a (MS-Word) document called "Rebuild" with the Sequence of steps I need to perform mechanically to get everything up and running in a short time. PM me with an email address ...
Thanks, Chris
The instillation with the DVD I made from the handlers Link does not seem to do anything yet_..

I tried: _
_ Put the DVD in. Nothing happened.

_ Did a restart ( with the DVD in ). Computer started normally ( Ignored the disc )

_ Double clicked on the File… I get told to search the Web for software to open that file. .. I do not feel like doing that.. I have a feeling that will send me off in a wild tangent

_....

_ I do remember yesterday, amongst everything else, I restarted and continually hit Esc. It came then to a black and white screen that did ask me to do something along the lines of inserting a Win 7 Operating System Disk.. The problem was that the computer froze and I could do nothing at all. I had to wait hours for the internal battery to run out, ( I see no way to get at the battery manually ( other than pulling the laptop apart.. Lol.. ) .. ). So I am not sure if ii want to try that again yet…

_...

I tend to write everything I do very explicitly in a Word doco, ( when I find a way to get something in computing to work…) I will be in touch via PM. Thanks for the offer. I expect I may not understand all those steps you do. All I would want on my computer would be the Operating System , Microsoft Office ( I have several original Discs I purchased for Office 2007 and Office 2010 ), and maybe a printer driver or similar.. but they are not on the new laptop at this stage anyway

Alan

P.s. You can get my Email , I think, from a icon top right of any of my posts under my name, but I will PM you anyway.
I am having difficulty logging in with this account just now.
You can find me at DocAElstein also

User avatar
Doc.AElstein
BronzeLounger
Posts: 1499
Joined: 28 Feb 2015, 13:11
Location: Hof, Bayern, Germany

difference between saving on a DVD and “burning” it.

Post by Doc.AElstein »

Can anyone explain in simple enough terms for a computer idiot like me to understand .... What is the difference between saving on a DVD and “burning” it.
Hi
I am still struggling on this.
We seem to have hit a stumbling point. The handler ( despite selling thousands of computers per year) seems to know even less than me. ( Or he is taking the Pee Pee out of me ! ) We ended up with a simple recovery disc that simply gave an alternative way of starting the computer. I seemed to have to tell him that that was not a disc to re install the Operating system.

We have got further.. But. It appears he does not know the difference between saving on a DVD, downloading onto a DVD , and “burning” a DVD. ( Or cannot, or will not , explain it )

I bought a book on a Burning DVD’s ages ago. I did read it, honest. I have Googled as well. I still do not have a clue.

I apologies but in my 25 years “computer coma” I have missed something.

I used to save things on a computer , discs, CD’s etc. .. etc.. I never “burnt” them – ( I smashed them up with a big hammer sometimes. .. Lol.. )

The handler suggested taking various options in Win 7 to “burn” a DVD. Some of those options are also to be found explained in internet, ( where I expact he got the info ) . These options are not present on my new computer. I have some “burn” options showing up on my old Vista Acer Aspire 4810TZG. But whenever I have selected them in any experiment I just get an error.

He did pass me a link to one article, that looked a bit promising, unfortunately it is in German. ( He sends me a lot of links which I expect are just the first thing he Googles )
http://www.pcwelt.de/a/iso-so-brennen-s ... ig,2342556" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
At one point it says
“….For example, it is completely useless to simply copy the file to a blank CD / DVD. This would only have a CD / DVD with a single large ISO file on it. You cannot read the contained data, and the disk would not be bootable at all……”

I am still no further.

So
Can anyone explain in simple enough terms for a computer idiot like me to understand .... What is the difference between saving on a DVD , ( or downloading to it ) and “burning” it.

No rush – I have been on this for a frustrating week now. If someone has the time sometime to carefully explain in plain Layman English terms I would be very grateful.

Thanks

Alan
I am having difficulty logging in with this account just now.
You can find me at DocAElstein also

User avatar
HansV
Administrator
Posts: 78071
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 00:14
Status: Microsoft MVP
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands

Re: Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers.

Post by HansV »

In the first place, data is written (saved) to a DVD by a laser that burns (etches) tiny pits in one of the layers of the DVD. So basically, saving a file to DVD is the same as burning it to DVD.

However, a .iso file is a special kind of file; it contains a complete image of a CD or DVD. You shouldn't simply copy the .iso file to a DVD, that won't work as intended. It has to be written to disc in a special way, named image burn.

If you're using Windows 7 or later, it's very easy: right-click the .iso file and select 'Burn disc image' from the context menu.
S1453.png
If you're using an older version of Windows, you can use the free utility ImgBurn with the 'Write image file to disc' option.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Best wishes,
Hans

User avatar
Doc.AElstein
BronzeLounger
Posts: 1499
Joined: 28 Feb 2015, 13:11
Location: Hof, Bayern, Germany

Re: Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers.

Post by Doc.AElstein »

Thanks Hans
I read, and was suggested by the Handler, the simple right click Win 7 Option. Also I read and was told that if that option is not available on mouse right clicking, then I could select the “Open with” option and then select something like “Windows Burner for disk images” ( German: “Windows Brenner für Datenträgerabbilder” ). But I do not have those options when I right click. I see this when I right click on the downloaded iso file on the desktop: http://imgur.com/el23Yjz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
( None of those translate to the "burn option" or "open with" option
That was one of my stumbling points. ***
_....

ImgBurn was one of two software’s ( The other being CDBurnerXP ) in a link the handler gave me, (http://www.pcwelt.de/a/iso-so-brennen-s ... ig,2342556" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ). But strangely he suggested I use a different softwäre that he said was offered there at that link … “ostenlosen” … But that is not there at that link???? ( He has given me wring information a few times )

_...___________

In the meantime I had been experimenting with the CDBurnerXP, and I think I may have got a “ISO Burn” on a DVD. This is what I did:
_(i) I started from this http://www.laptopia.de/download/bs/W7PRO.iso" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; which I downloaded to the desktop. It looked like this:, ( That link above was a download he offered from his server )
LaptopiaDownloadWin7ProToComputer.png http://imgur.com/TQ5ffbL" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

_(ii) Downloaded CDBurnerXP and ran it. It started with this option highlighted , which I took
( I note that it had to be a virgin unformatted DVD or else CDBurnerXP said no space was available on a empty but formatted disk – I guess that could tie up with it doing something special .. )
StartAttmpt1Win7ReInstalDiscCDBurnerXP.png http://imgur.com/fmQ577U" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

_(iii) I ended up with this after the “iso burn”
Attmpt1Win7ReInstalDiscCDBurnerXP.png http://imgur.com/pzeka7C" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That is to say, the final DVD looks like this:
DiscContentsAfterCDBurnerXP_isoBurn.png http://imgur.com/qLIy9Yh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
DiscContentsAfterCDBurnerXP_isoBurn2 http://imgur.com/iEGzwV1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Comparing that last screenshot with what the direct download to a DVD which gave me_..
LaptopiaWin7ProDownloadToDVD.png http://imgur.com/NFt3nA2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
_...it looks like I have more stuff. So the “special iso burn” seems to have done more….

_....__________

I am still a bit confused with “saving” or “burning” a DVD. You ( Hans ) seem to be saying that they are the same, (_.. usually: I do understand that you are saying that an “iso file” is something a bit different and has to be burnt ( or saved ) in a special way. )
I am still confused that in some windows, ( like here on my old ACER Vista ) I see an extra icon for burning?
http://imgur.com/rndDIqX" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The same window on the new Windows 7 computer does not show that or anything similar.
Here too I see a Burn option on my old Vista computer
http://imgur.com/I33M0OM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I do remember right back when I started with Excel a few years ago I had a problem that when I “Saved as” an Excel file to the DVD Drive. I remember I got something which only sometimes on some computers was readable . If instead, I used the right click option on the file and selected “send to” ---- “the DVD drive” ( or dragged the file into a big window I got when I double clicked on the DVD drive ) then the resulting File on the DVD was readable with no problems everywhere.
A dealer explained to me at that time that, the different obtained results on the DVD were because of the difference between saving and burning on a DVD.
I would rather take your ( Hans ) word for it, but clearly I am not alone in thinking that there had been a fundamental difference between DVD save and DVD burn:
Possibly along the way some people got / are mixed up the “special burning” and with “normal burning and saving”. Possibly therefore some people may use loosely the term “save” for the “normal save or burn”, and then use “burn” for the special burns like you have indicated. Other people may use “Burn / Save” or “special burn”. Possibly there lies the confusion, - different people using the words differently. Or there possibly are many different ways of burning, and it is just pot – luck which one a particular computer uses by default ?? People randomly use save or burn for the different ways.

My results shown in the contents in the DVD after the CDBurnerXP “iso burn”, compared with the results shown in the DVD from a direct download of the file to a DVD suggest “more is done” or “more is stored” on the “iso burn”. That ties up with what you ( Hans) said.
_...

***Do you think that the fact that I do not have those right click options for “burning” might be an indication that there is something dodgy with the Windows 7 version I have on the new computer.. and possible then the reluctance or apparent incompetence on the behalf of the handler in explaining to me what to do to re - install

_.....

Still a bit confusing for me, but I am getting closer_....

_... With the “CDBurnerXP iso burnt” DVD inserted in the new computer nothing happens other than I get the option to look inside the contents or do the .exe file. I have not taken the plunge yet to do the .exe
I expect that could finally do the re instillation that I wanted.
_.. If I restart with the DVD in the computer, then the computer starts normally. ( I think I have my DVD drive set on position 1 thingy, as I did that to get the Recovery disk to work to restart when it is in the computer ). If I double click on this_.
ClickToStart.png http://imgur.com/PkGAAro" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
_. then I get the usual Administrator warning window asking me if I want to continue something that will “change” my computer……

So I might have almost got there…

Possibly I should wait to see if the handler sends me such a DVD, ( as he said he would in his Last communication to me. …_.. )
_... Then if anything goes wrong, then hopefully I can still send the computer back…..

_.. If I do finally have the disc now that I wanted, then I find it strange that the handler sent me round in circles for a few days. .. If I have finally figured it out, then I would have thought he could have done it or have given me simple instructions to do it straight away… ( Maybe I should tell him how to do it if he gets stuck… Lol….. )

Alan

P.s., For completeness I will try the ImgBurn http://www.imgburn.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Now
I am having difficulty logging in with this account just now.
You can find me at DocAElstein also

User avatar
HansV
Administrator
Posts: 78071
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 00:14
Status: Microsoft MVP
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands

Re: Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers.

Post by HansV »

I haven't read your entire reply, but here are a few remarks:

Burning to DVD is the same as saving to DVD or writing to DVD, but after doing so the disc has to be 'closed'. There are two different ways of doing so:
1) Closing the disc definitively. You won't be able to add new files to the disc after this. The disc should be readable on any DVD drive, whether in a computer or as a stand-alone DVD player.
2) Closing the disc temporarily. You will be able to add new files later on. The disc will probably not be readable on stand-alone DVD players, only on a DVD drive in a computer.

The reason a .iso file is different, is that is actually a package containing many files, not a single file. If you simply copy / burn / write / save the .iso file to DVD, you have a DVD with a .iso file sitting on it. Such a disc won't do anything.
Image burning, whether performed by Windows itself (if available) or by a third-party utility, doesn't copy the .iso file to the disc, but extracts the files from the .iso file to the DVD in such a way that the disc is usable for installing software.
Best wishes,
Hans

User avatar
Doc.AElstein
BronzeLounger
Posts: 1499
Joined: 28 Feb 2015, 13:11
Location: Hof, Bayern, Germany

Re: Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers.

Post by Doc.AElstein »

Hi Hans
Thanks for the extra info. That helps clarify things a bit. I think I have sometimes seen two options offered that sound something similar to what you are saying. Possibly there lies the confusion or different results that I had in the past sometimes.
Possibly some people use burn or normal copy to refer to the different final “closing” option. Some people might, at first glance, consider option _1 below as ”normal”. I understand what you ( Hans) are saying that both options burns (etches) tiny pits in one of the layers of the DVD.
Some people might misunderstand the unread ability of option _2 below to have resulted from permanent burns (etches) that only that method does. I suspect method _1 does similar burns (etches) , but in some way that makes it easier to re burn or etch . Possibly option _1 does not do it as deep, leading to the difficulty in some systems in reading them.
This all ties up that it might be a bit of luck if your computer can read DVD’s done by “closing” method _1. It could be that the computer which actually used to copy onto / burn onto DVD with option _1 might have less difficulty reading it than another computer. Or vice versa. I think I saw in the past that some DVD’s were readable on some computers and not others for no apparent reason. I think now I have a possible explanation as to why that was.

_.......

This is what I see if I put in a virgin DVD and / or try to copy or burn to that DVD:
TwoOptions.png http://imgur.com/etwqg4Y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

_1 Livedateisystem – Ermöglicht das Hinzufügen bzw. Löschen von Dateien wie bei einem USB-Flashlaufwerk. Ist eventuell auf älteren Betriebssystems als Windows XP nicht lesbar

_2 Mastered – Auf allen Computern und einigen CD-/DVD-Spielen lesbar. Erfordert, dass alle Dateien in einem Schritt geschrieben werden und dass individuelle Dateien später nicht mehr gelöscht werden können

_1 Live file system - Allows you to add or delete files as you would with a USB flash drive. It may not be readable on older operating systems than Windows XP

_ 2 Mastered - Readable on all computers and some CD / DVD games. Requires that all files be written in one step and that individual files cannot be deleted later

So that could tie up with “normal copy” or “normal burn” being the same, as you say, but with those two different “closing” options which you are , I think saying, is done at the end typically.
This also ties up with, that when I try to “chuck out a disc” formatted with option Mastered, then it takes a while and a message says it is doing something to make it readable on other computers.

_......

I noted that the “iso burn” that I may have achieved would only work on a virgin DVD which had not been formatted as in the options above.
So this again ties up with the “iso burn” being a different thing. You are saying it takes the iso files ( which could be on any medium including a DVD , ( on a DVD probably the Mastered option of closing ) ) , and then it puts them on the DVD in a special way that is needed for the disc to be used for installing software. The normal formatting would possibly mess that up, that is to say not make it possible to do the special stuff to the disc.
I do not understand why there is the need for the “middle” step of putting the files initially in a “normal” form on a storage media, rather than directly making the “iso burnt” disc version. But I guess there are many good technical reasons why that is done. I guess when I download software form an internet site and install it directly on my computer then this is, in effect, missing out the middle bit, that is to say I put things straight into my computer in the required way. ... Or possibly not ?? – I often get an .exe file. Possibly the .exe File takes the information it needs .
Possibly an “iso burnt” disk is a “pseudo” normal disk with a .exe file created in it and the things that were in the normal disc re organised in some way to facilitate the better / more efficient running of the instillation process carried out by the created and included in the “iso burn” disc .exe file...


Clearly there are some subtle things going on here, but it is getting clearer, thanks

Alan

P.s.

The ImgBurn link is hard to navigate and seems to take me to different places..
_... The nearest I get to is a an “Express Burn” _.. that looks a bit different.
_... I will possibly leave that one for now.
The ImgBurn link seems to be offered a lot in different places, so maybe they changed where it goes to in order to get a lot of sales through commission on all the other stuff currently offered there instead of ImgBurn
I am having difficulty logging in with this account just now.
You can find me at DocAElstein also

User avatar
HansV
Administrator
Posts: 78071
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 00:14
Status: Microsoft MVP
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands

Re: Operating System Discs not supplied with new Computers.

Post by HansV »

Here is a direct download link for ImgBurn: http://download.imgburn.com/SetupImgBurn_2.5.8.0.exe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Best wishes,
Hans

User avatar
Doc.AElstein
BronzeLounger
Posts: 1499
Joined: 28 Feb 2015, 13:11
Location: Hof, Bayern, Germany

Copy Burn Close and special Burns

Post by Doc.AElstein »

HansV wrote:Here is a direct download link for ImgBurn:
Thanks Hans
I am having difficulty logging in with this account just now.
You can find me at DocAElstein also

User avatar
Doc.AElstein
BronzeLounger
Posts: 1499
Joined: 28 Feb 2015, 13:11
Location: Hof, Bayern, Germany

ImgBurn Download

Post by Doc.AElstein »

Hi
Just feeding back for the ImgBurn Download

I had a go:-

At first glance I seem to have a re instillation disc ( not tested it in a re – install yet. I will probably do that along with other ones for comparison later )

_..................

The ImgBurn Download goes like this

_ Download from the link given by Hans. http://download.imgburn.com/SetupImgBurn_2.5.8.0.exe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Most other Links around the internet just now seem to take you around in circles, and it is difficult to navigate the correct download. In fact it appears not to be there and you end up downloading something you did not want.

_ Open the file after it has downloaded and/ or click on the .exe file in the usual way, click OK to the Administrator warning window, etc.

_ As always, carefully read all before you proceed:
_ With this download you have to be a bit careful especially here:
CarefulUncheckImgBurn.png http://imgur.com/cAYipXV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Make sure you carefully select custom download twice in both Window half’s and check or uncheck appropriately so as to not get additional things that you do not want


_.................

To “iso burn” goes something like this

_The software will either start after successful download or double click on the desktop icon that you get after a successful download.

_Select what you want done, typically this will be the default top left symbol, something like write “Image data to Disc”.

_ As with the other “iso burner” software the DVD must be virgin and do not insert it immediately. If you do insert it then your computer may format it in which case the “iso burn” won’t work.
_1 Drag in to Top Left or search for the iso File to be “iso burnt”
_2 Then put a virgin disc in ( around the 4GB size is needed )
_3 Click on symbol bottom left that should now show
ImgBurn1_3.png http://imgur.com/zvLDw2N" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

_ At some point you may have to manually push the disc draw back in after it chucks it out. – It tells you when

_ It plays a nice tune at the end when it is finished

_ You should end up with something looking like this
FinishedDiscImgBurn.png http://imgur.com/boV7qec" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

_................


As with the other disc I made with CDBurnerXP it does not start immediately when you either
Put the disc in
or
If the disc is in by a computer restart. But double click as shown for CDBurnerXP http://www.eileenslounge.com/viewtopic. ... 35#p200050" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; http://imgur.com/PkGAAro" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and you get the usual administrator warning window asking you to proceed …..

So If I have a go and get any further with a successful re install then I will feedback

Alan
I am having difficulty logging in with this account just now.
You can find me at DocAElstein also