Grids connecting

[Argus]

A follow-up, sort of, on the off topic part of this thread: Impact of Hertz on computers [in the Hardware forum]

Very soon, or perhaps already, the Nordic & Baltic energy market will be connected to the one in the UK. That'll be, eh, interesting. It's Norway that's connecting I think.

At the moment I think the price there (in the UK) is around 90+ percent higher than in the southern of Sweden. This happens at a time when we have already seen an all-time high in July-August-September in the south, summer months and all. A price that's twice compared to the north. People are not happy.

Nordic pool 20210915.PNG

UK Nordic pool 20210915.PNG

We have one common Nordic spot market, and cables left and right, and over time also to the continent. Since around 10 years we have in SE four regions, from north to south; this was to help find bottlenecks in the national grid, but also indicate areas where production needs to increase.

It's a bit funny, because when we built our nuclear power plants it was where power was needed. We knew. Of course we also have quite a large input from hydro power, but it is where it is, in the north. It was nuclear power that helped us move away from fossil fuels in the '70s & early '80s, as several other countries. We had 12, then we closed two, in 1999 & 2005; being so close to Denmark meant some protests [against it being there] from them as well; but the decision also removed 2010 as an end date for nuclear power.

Then in 2015 & 2017 we closed two reactors, also in southern Sweden. And finally at the end of 2019 & 2020 we closed another two reactors, also in the south, they could run well into the '40s, and did some of their best years just before. It's starting to being noticed ... And we build wind mills as if the end of time is close. Sadly, the wind is a bit cheeky and it's not blowing all the time (well, we can all compare installed capacity with how much is generated); but they say it's always blowing somewhere, so we need 'em everywhere. And when that's not enough, which tends to be quite often, it will need backup from gas and worse. The sad thing is that when it's windy, it tends to be that in neighbouring regions as well, so that's export to a very low price.

This is done in an era where just about everything is supposed to run on electricity. We see large projects, battery manufacturers, fossil-free steel (and not only one but two projects), vehicles and what not. (And of course, as many other countries we see data centres pop up every now and then.) We have started to see towns having to say no to new projects and thus jobs, since there is not enough capacity. We have also seen our "backup plant" in the south burning oil in September; it's not exactly mid-winter and minus 20 degrees.

The problem is that even if we are slowly increasing the transmission capacity, from the two northern regions to the two in the south, it needs production in the south. So if one plant is closed in the south, the transmission capacity needs to be reduced, in some cases with as much as 1/2 of what the plant produced. This is due to the need for stability. Most think of the direct consequence, not the indirect. (I think the physical transmission capacity is some 7300 MW, but has been reduced to 6500, then 5100 MW.) The opposite is of course true as well; if we had, or built, plants in the south they would get some extra MW for "free", using transmission capacity already there. But it must be plannable production, and that's not the case now.

And not only that; during the last year or so they have had to revise plans etc. They thought we would go from say 140 TWh to 190 TWh 2045, when "suddenly" several projects declared how much energy they'll need in the coming 10-15 years. Such as when the state owned mining and minerals group behind one of the fossil-free steel projects mentioned: oh by the way, we are going to need 55 TWh ... Most of these projects are in the northern part; good for them to have more jobs etc. but bad for export to the southern part of the country. (The conclusion now is more or less: ehr, we're going to need everything up here in just a couple of years.)

Altogether it could end up in more than double of what we use today, easily; 300+ TWh.

So we are going into the future with heavily increased demand; we are going to see extreme volatility in prices (minus when it's blowing everywhere); and when everyone plus dog has an electric car a different price model. That's the positive side of it; on the negative are among other planned power outages.

[PJ_in_FL]

A very good micrograph on the lack of government vision and planning giving way to fads and activists until the fan blows much more than air around.

[ChrisGreaves]

Very soon, or perhaps already, the Nordic & Baltic energy market will be connected to the one in the UK. That'll be, eh, interesting. It's Norway that's connecting I think.

Lucky You!

Argus, consider the plight of poor Western Australia, or at any rate, Perth and environs in the lower south-west corner of the state. They recently had a day, or it might have been an hour, when 100% of the demand for electricity was met by solar power, poor sods. One report (https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/wa ... 102-p56aww) says that they are now paying businesses to use electricity.
What can you do when solar panels are pumping more juice into your system than your system can use? https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-01/ ... d/11731452

You might think “sell it to someone”, but since there is no power-line stretching the 2,000+ Km between Perth and Adelaide, how are you going to get the juice there?
And even if you could get it there, South Australia, the state, recently had a day, or it might have been an hour, when 100% of the demand for electricity was met by solar power, poor sods. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-25/ ... e/12810366
They have a chance of selling excess to Melbourne and Sydney, but apart from the fact that SA hates WA’s guts almost as much as they hate Melbourne and Victoria, they are not likely to look lovingly on a surplus arriving from the west.

You should have these problems.

A recent (one week ago?) article pointed out that Australia was a world leader in the production of solar panels, until twenty years ago, then the Ivory Tower experts took off to China and established factories there, selling solar panels at (say) 10% the price prevailing in Australia, so now the Australian industry has collapsed. https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/202 ... /100466342

Me? I am stockpiling old wood that can’t be re-used in construction in the rafters of my shed so that I will have a supply of fuel for my barbecue if the sunny weather ever returns to Bonavista.
Cheers
Chris

[Argus]

A very good micrograph on the lack of government vision and planning giving way to fads and activists until the fan blows much more than air around.

Sure is, and a lack of understanding combined with a lot of hope for the best.

Very soon, or perhaps already, the Nordic & Baltic energy market will be connected to the one in the UK. That'll be, eh, interesting. It's Norway that's connecting I think.

Lucky You!

UK, perhaps. As you can imagine, I think, their price, in the best of worlds, will go down a tiny bit (unless the usual unforeseen stuff happens), and our will, eh, at least not move down.

Argus, consider the plight of poor Western Australia, or at any rate, Perth and environs in the lower south-west corner of the state. They recently had a day, or it might have been an hour, when 100% of the demand for electricity was met by solar power, poor sods. One report (...) says that they are now paying businesses to use electricity.

One would think people would stop solving the problem when it has been solved. If there are too many solar panels that is. How about using a very big blanket and covering some of those solar panels.

I'm not an engineer in that discipline, but I understand it's not an easy task adding a huge amount of solar panels to a grid built for something else. Each individual doesn't see the problem, but together there can be.

I'm well aware that the situation here (in this regard) is far better than in many countries. I'm also well aware that we have had lower prices here (compared to for example several other in Europe) for quite some time, but that was for a reason, although we have high taxes on that and VAT on top; but what we see here now is an home-made, self-induced, potential for crisis. (A long time ago a well-known person in the industry said something along the lines that we have cheap electricity, clean electricity, in short what most countries want, and our biggest problem is how we can get out of that situation.)

And it was if not close so a bit strained last February, and apparently more so in other parts of Europe in January. If anything I wish our friends in the UK good luck. Let's see what this winter brings us ... (As for the "backup plant" burning oil in September; that's normally to cover an unplanned stop at some other site, not running during a normal winter, and certainly not now.)

Can't find it now, but I think we produced more at some points in the '80s than now. Over here we have some that like to say that year by year we export energy to Europe, and that's great (replacing coal whatever), but not all the time far from, as mentioned above. And if we get a normal winter, at the peak hour we are expected go minus 1600 MWh/h (with a 10-year winter: -2800 MWh/h etc.); that’s a couple of those reactors closed; and I assume they are counting with some wind, but if there a none ... (Not much sun here during winter as you know, and anyhow it's mostly wind mills here of the two; and with some cold clear days with no wind ...) So, then we have to rely on other countries (reading about high prices on coal, gas etc. makes no fun reading).

As for 2,000 km power lines, that's what you get when make a country out of a continent. (But as you describe it, perhaps some of the states consider them as countries.)

In general, though, it seems Australia (apart from SA & TAS), are mostly on step two in the: wood, coal, oil, gas, hydro/nuclear/solar/wind "stairs", according to some articles and elsewhere.

https://app.electricitymap.org/zone/AUS-WA

I agree, some other problems than those we have had, in several areas, for some time would be appreciated.

[ChrisGreaves]

A follow-up, sort of, on the off topic part of this thread: Impact of Hertz on computers [in the Hardware forum].

And a recent (2021/09/29) report from South Australia with (about half-way through) commentary on Europe and the UK.
Cheers
Chris

[Argus]

And a recent (2021/09/29) report from South Australia with (about half-way through) commentary on Europe and the UK.

Thanks, Chris. Good for SA, and a great rebuild, and their 1.7+ million population, with, what, 1.3M in Adelaide. As for renewables, it's possible SA is a world leader (with 62 % from wind and solar, and increasing), but I think we saw 62 % from "renewables", hydro and wind, in 2020; around 56 % in 2019.*

(Solar power, although plenty of installations, some 65,000 plus (I saw a first test some 40 year ago), and as you might guess increasing a lot during the last decade, with many homeowners joining as well, produce only around 1 % of total energy consumption here.)

There are several differences between the countries in Europe; some may be commonly known, others not. (Germany is closing nuclear power plants, relies heavily on gas & coal; France on the other hand has, what, 70 % from nuclear power. Etc.) I'm sure you know this.

Although it is common, one can't just assume that when wind and solar power are introduced it is to replace coal and gas. I don't know when we last used anything like that on a scale of any importance.

As mentioned we have had quite low emissions for quite some time, and also a very stable grid. What we see now is a reduction of the number of nuclear plants, plannable production, which until some years ago also saw an extra tax, and a heavy expansion of wind power (that received subsidies). It doesn't change much in emissions, but introduces volatility in prices, increased risks with regard to grid stability and also the balance between produced and consumed energy. It may work since we nowadays have far more cables connecting to other countries, but we're increasing our dependency on outside sources (some countries heavily into gas know this all too well), that may in the end increase our emissions. As mentioned, although we have a large input from hydro power, and I don't think they are going to close all remaining nuclear power plants anytime soon, when the wind isn't blowing we'll need some backup, and if that's import generated by a coal-gas-wind-mix, well, our emissions go up, although produced somewhere else. And I wouldn't limit volatility to only gas & oil prices. That said it's certainly good that the world is slowly moving away from burning coal and oil in large quantities.

All this at a time when we are supposed to convert to more or less all on electricity, and double our energy consumption here. It doesn't make sense. That's the point; not tabloid or social media FUD.

As for the grids connecting; the 1400 MW HVDC link to GB is up and running from 1/10 it seems. At some point yesterday our rich neighbour in the west imported from Denmark for €65/MWh and sold to GB for €95/MWh, I'm told.

Nord Pool 20211001.PNG

* Some minutes ago, wind and hydro was at 68.3 % of total production here; but as I've mentioned wind is unreliable, its part could be <10 % or 45 %. (The electricity map, mentioned above says 69 % renewables, I don't know the exact numbers there, but it's pretty close.) And there are other countries, or parts of, with higher numbers.

20211002_A.png

[ChrisGreaves]

Thanks, Chris. Good for SA, and a great rebuild, and their 1.7+ million population, with, what, 1.3M in Adelaide. As for renewables, it's possible SA is a world leader (with 62 % from wind and solar, and increasing), but I think we saw 62 % from "renewables", hydro and wind, in 2020; around 56 % in 2019.*

SA, like WA, is an anomaly in our context. Both are small populations based in a single city, in low latitudes ( ~30S) and so are prime candidates for solar power, have plenty of unoccupied space where no one can object, and of course I am a pipeline of news reports.
“World Leader” changes each day depending on the specific criteria. To my mind the difference between 56% and 62% is insignificant without knowing how the figure is calculated. (“Justin Case”)

(Solar power, although plenty of installations, some 65,000 plus (I saw a first test some 40 year ago), and as you might guess increasing a lot during the last decade, with many homeowners joining as well, produce only around 1 % of total energy consumption here.)

There is a huge divide between “homeowners” and “industry” (or Big Business). With homeowners you need laws governing installation etc. Nobody wants roofs collapsing under the weight. Industry has constraints built in at the contract level. Different approaches for small-scale and large-scale. Of course both scales get lumped into a national Percentage (“62%”), but it’s really fruit-salad rather than fruit.

There are several differences between the countries in Europe; some may be commonly known, others not. (Germany is closing nuclear power plants, relies heavily on gas & coal; France on the other hand has, what, 70 % from nuclear power. Etc.) I'm sure you know this.

Arguably Australia has been way behind the rest of the world, with no (or few) nuclear power plants and a heavy rural reliance on wood, and then diesel fuel. In my youth we cooked with mallee roots

... since we nowadays have far more cables connecting to other countries, but we're increasing our dependency on outside sources

I can remember the petrol bowsers where a glass flask was filled by a lever, and the petrol allowed to run into the car tank. What a disaster when the car driver thought he needed ten gallons but had space for only eight!
I can’t remember when we didn’t have petrol bowsers, but there was a time when cars set off with cans of petrol strapped to the running-boards. It takes time to establish networks, as the stations for recharging electric cars demonstrate.
In Bonavista our “outside sources” include salad greens shipped/trucked from Chile; I don’t know why more people don’t eat dandelion leaves!

... ... when the wind isn't blowing we'll need some backup, ...

I think that this is called “batteries”, and nowadays whenever the “wind isn’t blowing” brigade start up I point out that even petrol users have reservoirs, tank farms, and a battery is just an intermediary between producer and consumer, same as a tank-farm or a grocery warehouse/distribution centre.

All this at a time when we are supposed to convert to more or less all on electricity, and double our energy consumption here. It doesn't make sense. That's the point; not tabloid or social media FUD.

FUD? Whatever happened to good old “Gloom, Alarum, and Despondency”?
I am all-electric since August 2020. To me it makes sense, as “electricity” is a currency of energy, just as dollar bank-notes are a currency of value; a common form of interchange.
The source of electricity into my house might be nuclear, hydro, fossil fuel, wind, solar – I don’t care (I do, but you get the point), as long as there is electricity coming down the line, I can have grilled cheese sandwiches.
There will always be a mixture of input forms of energy, but it makes sense to convert it all to electricity at source, and then let it run “downhill” to the consumers. That involves a grid, and that’s what Australia doesn’t have right now. (Well, OK, WA is isolated ....)

As for the grids connecting; the 1400 MW HVDC link to GB is up and running from 1/10 it seems. At some point yesterday our rich neighbour in the west imported from Denmark for €65/MWh and sold to GB for €95/MWh, I'm told.

Stick it to The Brits! Yay! . There is, I suspect, a Brexit penalty here which we had better not discuss.

... but as I've mentioned wind is unreliable, its part could be <10 % or 45 %.

The first question people ask of me is “You’re going off the grid ...?”, and I have to counter that argument. My estimates for the turbine, based on meteorological records of wind speed and maximum gust and the manufacturer’s claim, is that I might harvest 670KwH per year from a 400w wind turbine. My annual consumption stands at around 10,000 Kwh, so my turbine represents about 7% of my needs.
The turbine’s primary function is to let me make two mugs of coffee each morning, two mugs of tea each afternoon, read a book for one hour each night, and stay under the duvet during a power outage. That it has blossomed into an extra twenty-eight applications is my fault. My neighbour David is anxious to see this working because he has a cabin out in the woods by the lake ...
I think that wind IS reliable⁽¹⁾, just not on a short-term (make a mug of coffee) basis, and for that reason I need car batteries ($10 at the body-shop down the street). Same deal as a need for reservoirs of just about everything else we humans consume.

⁽¹⁾One of the annoying brags in Bonavista is "How much wind we got!", but no one seems to think in annual terms. "Boy that was some wind last night eh? Too bad it don't blow like that every night ...".
Cheers
Chris

[Argus]

There is a huge divide between “homeowners” and “industry” (or Big Business). With homeowners you need laws governing installation etc. Nobody wants roofs collapsing under the weight. Industry has constraints built in at the contract level. Different approaches for small-scale and large-scale. [...]

And not only the weight (and as you know we have to calculate with snow on top as well, in some parts of the world even more so, so usually fine), the installation must be done by people with knowledge of course, and if there is a fire, emergency services are not too keen to jump straight in with water if they don't know if the power is cut (similar to some concerns regarding fires in electric vehicles). I agree there are different approaches depending on scale.

I am all-electric since August 2020. To me it makes sense, as “electricity” is a currency of energy, just as dollar bank-notes are a currency of value; a common form of interchange.
The source of electricity into my house might be nuclear, hydro, fossil fuel, wind, solar – I don’t care (I do, but you get the point), as long as there is electricity coming down the line, I can have grilled cheese sandwiches.

Yes, electricity is great for grilled cheese sandwiches, (or perhaps that should be :drool:) but one can wonder if such a high form of energy, electricity, is best used to for example heat pieces of metal to get molecules in the air moving faster and thus heat a room. But if we get it for free in abundance in the future ... I guess nobody would care one bit what we use it for.

Stick it to The Brits! Yay! . There is, I suspect, a Brexit penalty here which we had better not discuss.

I hope, and think, it will become better for the Britons (and I see nothing directly related to, eh, ). But a part of that is also why also we see higher prices than we used to do this part of the year. One market, sort of, and cables left and right, as mentioned above.

What, people say, we have enough production from sources in the country, at the moment, with next to nil emissions, in fact we export, say, 4500 MW this very moment, yet our prices are influenced by what some other bloke in Europe produce and emit. The last produced unit sets the price, sort of. And what is the last thing you start, when the price is high enough? Oil & coal (unless it's your only option, and it's running all the time). These prices have gone up, and also the EU has decreased the allowable emissions in the emissions trading system, with higher prices on tradable allowances as a result. That’s tough luck then if my/your whole consumption comes from next-to-zero emission just around the corner.

I think that this is called “batteries”, and nowadays whenever the “wind isn’t blowing” brigade start up I point out that even petrol users have reservoirs, tank farms, and a battery is just an intermediary between producer and consumer, same as a tank-farm or a grocery warehouse/distribution centre.

I think that wind IS reliable⁽¹⁾, just not on a short-term (make a mug of coffee) basis, and for that reason I need car batteries ($10 at the body-shop down the street). Same deal as a need for reservoirs of just about everything else we humans consume.

I don't consider myself as part of the “wind isn’t blowing"-brigade, but I am interested in stable conditions with enough supply, the foundation for wealth and thus welfare in a country; my little consumption of electricity and the price on that is of a more minor interest. Even if we had kept the other 6 reactors it wouldn't be enough for a doubled consumption in some decades, so things must change, of course, but it doesn't make sense to exclude them from the mix and increase unplannable when we are going to see the biggest increase in consumption in 100 years: at a time when plenty of other countries wants to do the same.

Yes, in some sense the wind is reliable, it will always blow at some point, and the sun will go up. However, you can't just push a button and it will blow. We are going to need a ginormous amount of batteries, to accompany a huge amount of wind power parks, if we are going to run even one quarter of the country on it, not to mention the prime priority today: to produce enough of them (batteries) for mobile units, i.e. vehicles etc. and their charging stations. As your project, I knew one who apparently used batteries in his apartment to cover some consumption. Fun as a project I guess.

But yes, I know it is being tested in larger scale. For example the Swedish power company Vattenfall has what they call a hybrid energy park, Haringvliet Zuid in The Netherlands. Happy promo video.

[Argus]

You should have these problems.

We will have negative energy prices between 01:00 and 08:00 (local time) tomorrow, or rather this night. It happens sometimes, as in SA, in this case it's the wind that's been picking up for some day. Won't change much for those that have monthly average, but a better start of the month than previous months. (No, I don't follow the energy markets by the hour; I just noticed this in the news when I came back.)

Nord Pool 20211002_A.PNG

[Argus]

Ah well, back to "normal". From around zero to 2+ SEK/kWh in day-ahead price in SE4 in just around 7 hours.
That is, the new normal is around 10 times higher than what it used to be (or to be more nuanced, 5-10 times; and around 3 times the old normal in SE3).

Nord Pool 20211003_A.PNG

[ChrisGreaves]

... my little consumption of electricity and the price on that is of a more minor interest.

Almost twenty years ago, Ontario-Hydro offered some kind of reward to households who could demonstrate a 20% (I think) reduction in their hydro bill over three (I think) months. The idea was that households who were wasting power would, over three months, break their habits. The plan was trumpeted and I, of course, thought a reduction in MY rates was worth going for. To my eternal sadness I found that I was one of the Good Guys whose consumption could not be lowered, certainly not by the 20%.
At the time it felt like a slap in the face; because I was such a good boy, I was not eligible for rewards, But those who had been leaving the lights burning 24/7 could be rewarded with lower rates!

We are going to need a ginormous amount of batteries, to accompany a huge amount of wind power parks,

There was a news article from somewhere in the past couple of weeks about a scheme whereby electric cars would be used as short-term storage; charge them up at home/office during off-peak hours, then use millions of car batteries to supplement the grid when the cars were not in use. The idea was that owners of electric cars would be reimbursed for the power they discharged from their cars, and could end up making money in the long term.

We'll see ...
Cheers
Chris

[Argus]

... my little consumption of electricity and the price on that is of a more minor interest.

Almost twenty years ago, Ontario-Hydro offered some kind of reward to households who could demonstrate a 20% (I think) reduction in their hydro bill over three (I think) months. The idea was that households who were wasting power would, over three months, break their habits. [...]

Without going into details, some things have changed themselves over the past 10-15 years, for many people. What is different if I'm home or not? I use some devices not running when I'm not at home, of course. Compare using an old computer monitor running at, what, 120-130+ W, with an old computer, and then change it to a modern using 20+W, and also change computer hardware; change light bulbs over time (a difference even if you only use one - in the room you are in at each moment). Not done in three months, but replaced when needed. Then of course, if one is heating the home with electricity, or in some other way has a rather high consumption, then a reduction of 50-75 kWh per month won't make a blip, or bend the curve. Not pointing any fingers; it all depends on what can be done in different areas. But I can understand your frustration then.

Still, and as mentioned above, no matter if the energy consumption is 2000 or less, 10,000, or 25,000+ kWh/year, one can have concerns about the broader perspective; what happens to the grid, the industries, the ...

We are going to need a ginormous amount of batteries, to accompany a huge amount of wind power parks,

There was a news article from somewhere in the past couple of weeks about a scheme whereby electric cars would be used as short-term storage; charge them up at home/office during off-peak hours, then use millions of car batteries to supplement the grid when the cars were not in use. The idea was that owners of electric cars would be reimbursed for the power they discharged from their cars, and could end up making money in the long term.

Yes, I've heard about that idea; making things even more complicated. Seems like fun ... a gig economy-thing, sort of. I hope people can opt out etc. No fun if you're going to do some extra travel after work and find that your car has been used as a supplement, to make up for lack of planning elsewhere.

Sorry, but it was a bit less windy today than we expected, hope it's OK with you; we left enough juice in the battery for your usual drive home, since we know where you live. Have a nice day.

[PJ_in_FL]

I take comfort in knowing that should the grid collapse world-wide as some predict will happen if governments "stay the course", I'll get very warm but can survive unlike those in the frozen north (cough, cough, bonavista, cough, cough), to make it until the occasional cold spell (35-40F in these here parts). Luckily I'll have the opportunity to huddle under an overpass with lots of company to keep warm.

(Civilization is a metastable condition)

[ChrisGreaves]

Sorry, but it was a bit less windy today than we expected, hope it's OK with you; we left enough juice in the battery for your usual drive home, since we know where you live. Have a nice day.

Argus, you need to upgrade your marketing skills.

Try that line again, but this time around stress the good news: "Now that the wind has dropped, you won't feel wind-chill during your walk home"
Cheers
Chris

[ChrisGreaves]

... the frozen north (cough, cough, bonavista, cough, cough),...

PJ, any more of that and I will trot out more of my photos of Florida from 2014.
Cheers
Chris

[ChrisGreaves]

UK, perhaps. As you can imagine, I think, their price, in the best of worlds, will go down a tiny bit (unless the usual unforeseen stuff happens), and our will, eh, at least not move down....

We'll see.
In the meantime "As a result, Freightliner has taken the difficult decision to temporarily replace electric freight services with diesel-hauled services, in order to maintain a cost-effective option for transporting vital goods and supplies across the UK.”
The article claims, too, "Electricity prices up 210 per cent"


Cheers
Chris

[Argus]

I haven't checked but I think I saw something about the North Sea link running at half capacity initially and perhaps still, but yes, it won't change much. I'm sure you're happy proving me wrong, but I said in the best of worlds a tiny bit. The theory, from my point, that I'm sure you understand, was that if you add a link with enough for 1M+ households (that capacity then removed from the Nordic market) prices would probably go in those directions, or at least it wouldn't increase as much in the UK it would have without the link.

"... the price Network Rail charges us to operate electric train services has increased by more than 210 per cent between September and October"

Who knows what prices Network Rail has, and charge other. (Of course they're in some way directly linked to the prices on the wholesale market.)

If anything we saw alarming headlines in September, such as "Wholesale energy prices soar following fire at National Grid site"; that was IFA, a link to France. If they've then gone up 210 % from mid-Sept to mid-Oct, for electric train services, then of course it's bad news; I don't know what has happened the last 14 days.

20211015_A.jpg

That is, if you add 1,400 MW in the north, perhaps not running at full pelt yet, but lose a 2,000 MW cable in the south some weeks earlier (Half of it will be restored in a week it seems.), other bad things ceteris paribus, will the northern one, NSL, change much?

[Argus]

I can’t remember when we didn’t have petrol bowsers, but there was a time when cars set off with cans of petrol strapped to the running-boards. It takes time to establish networks, as the stations for recharging electric cars demonstrate.

I think that this is called “batteries”, and nowadays whenever the “wind isn’t blowing” brigade start up I point out that even petrol users have reservoirs, tank farms, and a battery is just an intermediary between producer and consumer, same as a tank-farm or a grocery warehouse/distribution centre.

I am all-electric since August 2020. To me it makes sense, as “electricity” is a currency of energy, just as dollar bank-notes are a currency of value; a common form of interchange.
The source of electricity into my house might be nuclear, hydro, fossil fuel, wind, solar – I don’t care (I do, but you get the point), as long as there is electricity coming down the line, I can have grilled cheese sandwiches.
There will always be a mixture of input forms of energy, but it makes sense to convert it all to electricity at source, and then let it run “downhill” to the consumers.

Here is an interesting video about using hydrogen as fuel in heavy machinery; and that it doesn't make sense to use batteries when they need to run for 8-16+ hours a day, not to mention the cost and adding tons of batteries to a machine that then needs to be increased in size just to cope with the extra weight, but doing less hours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDKLoLUQgH0

[ChrisGreaves]

At the moment I think the price there (in the UK) is around 90+ percent higher than in the southern of Sweden. This happens at a time when we have already seen an all-time high in July-August-September in the south, summer months and all. A price that's twice compared to the north. People are not happy.

My eye was caught by today's news item from South Australia Renewable energy production hits new record in SA, as expert predicts more milestones to fall soon.
Specially "The average cost of a megawatt hour dropped to -$26.35.", which I read as a positive cost of $26.35 per megawatt-hour.
If I have done my sums right, that is 2.635 CENTS per kilowatt hour.
Here in Newfoundland, home of Muskrat Falls, I am paying 12.346 cents per kilowatt hour, roughly six times as much as those CrowEaters.

The four new windows installed to date are making an good impact on my heating bills. On sunny days I leave the bedroom and study doors open, and those two rooms heat my living-rooms. I say that because with all three room-thermostats set to 19c, the baseboard heaters do not engage.
That said, at $1,000 per 6'x4' window, while my morale soars, the $ROI is dismal!

Cheers, Chris