Unpowered USB hubs

[John Gray]

I have a couple of these 4-port unpowered USB hubs bought from pound shops, but came across an unexpected situation where, when plugging in a Logitech Webcam, it stated that this was into a USB 1.1 port, and, gosh, how much better performance I'd get if I plugged into a USB 2 port. The only other device plugged into this hub is the keyboard. (Surely that is not USB 1.1?)

Has anyone encountered this apparent downgrade, and/or is the Logitech message to be believed?

[BobH]

Hello John!

It is very highly likely that your keyboard could be a USB 1.1 transfer rate device. Consider that the required speed of data transfer is snail paced to a computer. In the old days, we used to distinguish between device rates and put them on separate buses (the computer kind) based on their class of speed. Consoles, punch card readers, printers and similar devices had mechanical speed limitations meaning that there was no need to put them on a high speed bus or port. Disk drives and tape drives were attached to high speed ports and buses.

Using USB2 or USB3 for a keyboard would be like having a Ferrari to drive to the corner store in the city.

[Argus]

I'm not particularly surprised; I've seen that message (about 1.1) even when using the front panel ports (that are connected to the internal connectors on the motherboard via cable).

And yes, I do believe that a keyboard is one of those devices that don’t need much bandwidth (as opposed to a webcam(!)).

A quote, from: http://www.usb.org/about/usb_nomenclature" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The second class of peripherals operates at slower speeds because these peripherals do not need fast data-transfer rates. (And if they supported such performance, it would add considerably to their cost to the consumer.) These include:
joysticks
keyboards
mice
other products

I.e. using something in the range 1.5 Mb/s or 12 Mb/s covered by 1.1. Then it's a different matter that the 2.0 specification is, as we all know, backward compatible with the earlier specifications.

I also don't believe that just because it says “2.0”, if it indeed does, it is a Hi-Speed USB capable device; so being bought in a pound shop, even if they are cheap nowadays, I would check the hub.

So, I think your webcam needs a little more power, and speed, than the unpowered hubs can deliver. And even if being a Hi-Speed USB hub, it could be that they are closed if a peripheral device starts trying to drain it on power, when there is none.

[viking33]

I have a couple of these 4-port unpowered USB hubs bought from pound shops, but came across an unexpected situation where, when plugging in a Logitech Webcam, it stated that this was into a USB 1.1 port, and, gosh, how much better performance I'd get if I plugged into a USB 2 port. The only other device plugged into this hub is the keyboard. (Surely that is not USB 1.1?)

Has anyone encountered this apparent downgrade, and/or is the Logitech message to be believed?

I tried to make a reply to your post earlier but don't know what happened to it?
The essence was in agreement with the other posts, in that I didn't think the keyboard needed a USB 2.0 port, 1.1 was fine. ( unless you are a super fast typist and could outrun the keyboard buffer? )
The webcam could achieve some speed improvement, IF it is USB 2.0 compatible?

BTW, what is a pound shop? Always considered that a Pet Shop or an animal rescue spot? I'm assuming it's a discount store in the UK?

[HansV]

Don't you have dollar stores in the USA? A pound shop is the UK equivalent.

[viking33]

Don't you have dollar stores in the USA? A pound shop is the UK equivalent.

Not around my way. Sounds like a California thing.

[HansV]

dollar-tree-store.jpg

[viking33]

Nope, nothing like that place. ( thank goodness )

[PJ_in_FL]

Don't you have dollar stores in the USA? A pound shop is the UK equivalent.

Not around my way. Sounds like a California thing.

I suspect anyone wanting to put a dollar store or perhaps even a Wal-Mart on Cape Cod would be ridden out of town on a rail. It's a "culture" thing.

OTOH, where I live in Florida we have dollar stores, pawn shops, GoodWill and Salvation Army discount stores and even Wal-Marts! Here, culture is what's growing on the walls in the shower.

[BobL]

Don't you have dollar stores in the USA? A pound shop is the UK equivalent.

Not around my way. Sounds like a California thing.

Really? Sounds like for once Maine isn't behind times <g> - we do have Dollar Stores (lots of em).
Heck, the Mrs. is addicted to them (we have 2 different ones just here in my city).

[viking33]

suspect anyone wanting to put a dollar store or perhaps even a Wal-Mart on Cape Cod would be ridden out of town on a rail. It's a "culture" thing.
------------------------------
Absolutely!
No dollar stores, no Wal-Marts, no discount warehouses.
As it should be!

[John Gray]

Getting back on topic, I wonder whether anyone else has noticed that some recent USB mice no longer come with the standard green USB-to-PS/2 adapter:

and that if you try to use one, the mouse does not work? Could it be because the mouse electronics is now USB 2?

[Argus]

No, I don't think it has anything to do with the USB specification, the mouse being USB 2. Theoretically it could be supporting "Hi-Speed USB", i.e. the fastest speed within USB 2, but it wouldn't need that and use the slower transfer rates covered by 1.1, as I mentioned earlier; and the USB 2 specification includes the older one, is backward compatible, so it wouldn't change anything.

The mouse (or keyboard) must support it; i.e. a combination of both the PS/2 and the USB interfaces, and if it did, it usually came with an adapter.

I've seen a similar "problem" with an old PS/2 to serial adapter; one early PS/2 wheel mouse (Intellimouse) was a combo mouse, it could use a serial adapter (it came with such an adapter); and it was mentioned also on the mouse, if I remember correct; a later Intellimouse couldn't, it was PS/2 only. Obviously, if it came with an adapter, then it should work.

So, I think you will need a mouse capable of handling both interfaces, or if you can find an adapter which actively does some processing, an active adapter; a passive one won't work.

[Charlotte]

Don't you have dollar stores in the USA? A pound shop is the UK equivalent.

Not around my way. Sounds like a California thing.

Actually, Dollar Stores didn't start in California AFAIK, they just moved West with the rest of the population! And the franchise is international these days.