How is it done?

[Skitterbug]

So yesterday, I surfed for golf DVDs to see what is being offered. Today I receive a telephone call from Michelle who says she is calling to make me an even better offer than the one I saw for a set of golf DVDs on one of the websites! I was put off by it really since I am naturally suspicious.

So how do they extract enough info to track down a potential customer?
And how could a person even know that the person calling was really legitimate?
Has anyone else had experience with this sort of "door-to-door" marketing?

Certainly, I am not about to give credit card info to just anyone who calls and says they represent "so-and so" and wouldn't I like to buy!

[HansV]

Unless you take special measures, websites that you visit can see your IP address, and nowadays most people have a fixed IP address. If you have ever given personal info such as your name, address and/or telephone number to a company on the internet, they can match that info with your IP address, so if you ever visit their website again, they know who you are.
And then, there are companies who try to collect this kind of information from various sources (some legitimate, others more shady), and sell it to others for marketing purposes.

[Skitterbug]

Unless you take special measures, websites that you visit can see your IP address, and nowadays most people have a fixed IP address. If you have ever given personal info such as your name, address and/or telephone number to a company on the internet, they can match that info with your IP address, so if you ever visit their website again, they know who you are.
And then, there are companies who try to collect this kind of information from various sources (some legitimate, others more shady), and sell it to others for marketing purposes.

Thanks for the explanation. Since I do purchase via web pages, I reckon I'm exposed! :gasp: Generally, I don't use unknown merchants but I guess it only takes one to sell this into. I've looked into web surfing anonymously but it seems to be tedious. So I guess my defense is to simply say no and hang up!

[BobH]

This proves, yet again, that George Orwell was prescient!

Here are several steps you can take. They have (mostly) worked for me.

First, put your telephone numbers - all of them - on the national 'no call' lists so that telemarketers cannot legally call you.

Second, get a Magic Jack or similar internet phone service. It costs about $40 to buy the dongle for attaching to your computer and $20 a year thereafter (they sometimes offer a 5 year subscription for $60). You get to choose your area code. That comes in handy if you want to select one not targeted by electronic snoopers or one outside the area where you live.

Third, use your internet phone service telephone number for ALL - and I mean ALL - online registrations or purchases that require a phone number. Use this as a faux number. You don't ever have to answer the phone. It has voice messaging and will notify you by email every time your voice mail box is used. You can then click through to hear the voice mail message. This is very effective in blocking telemarketers because their autodialers are usually programmed to skip voice mail and answering machine answers.

Fourth, when retail cashiers ask for your telephone number or zip code or any other personal information tell them you value your privacy and do not give out that information. I've told more than one that they could have my money or that information. I'm yet to have them not take my money.

Fifth, use PayPal for online purchases so that only PayPal have your account information. Do not EVER trust a retailer - especially an online retailer - with your account information. This is an invitation to 'identity theft'.

Sixth, discontinue your land-line telephone service or require that the number be unpublished and unlisted. I can't recall the last time I received a phone call that I wanted to receive from someone who found it in a telephone directory. Use your cell phone instead.

There are some who have proposed requiring all credit and debit card issuers to provide a service free to account holders for purchases not made in person, similar to the service provided by PayPal. Having spent 30 years in that industry as an IT person, I can personally attest that doing so would be a relatively minor effort for card issuers. They already have transaction processing networks in place, and running the number 'blind' operation would reduce their fraud losses significantly.

HTH

[viking33]

Sixth, discontinue your land-line telephone service or require that the number be unpublished and unlisted.
HTH

The only problem I see with number 6 is, I don't have or want a cell phone. If I eliminate my land line, there goes my DSL service. At least in my area, the phone factory charges a monthly fee to NOT publish or list my phone number.
The "do not call list" actually works fairly good. I seen a BIG reduction in annoyance calls since using that.

[BobH]

Sixth, discontinue your land-line telephone service or require that the number be unpublished and unlisted.
HTH

The only problem I see with number 6 is, I don't have or want a cell phone. If I eliminate my land line, there goes my DSL service. At least in my area, the phone factory charges a monthly fee to NOT publish or list my phone number.
The "do not call list" actually works fairly good. I seen a BIG reduction in annoyance calls since using that.

I should have qualified that suggestion stating that IF you have a cell phone and if you DON'T have DSL and if you DO have cable modem service for your ISP.

Do not call (DNC) data is often very far out of date at the autodialers where most of the telemarketer calls originate. For those who don't get their number on the DNC lists (or if those lists aren't being properly used) and who haven't instructed their carriers to not give out their number, data mining software will turn up those numbers and they will be sold. If you ever answer a TM's call even once, the record will be marked as a 'good number' and that information will be sold over and over again.

The right to privacy should have been written into the US Constitution - and would have been if the founding fathers could have foreseen the advance of technology making its loss so easy. Amendment 3 - prohibition of quartering - was as much to ensure and guaranty privacy as for any other reason. In fact, only a state of war was deemed to trump that prohibition on the basis that national security supersedes personal privacy.

[ChrisGreaves]

I've told more than one that they could have my money or that information. I'm yet to have them not take my money.

I like it! Sure beats my current ploy of giving out my ex-girlfriend's number.

On a more serious note: Two months ago I purchased a cell phone "Virgin Mobile" out at Square One in Mississauga.
After I'd given my name I realized that they were asking for street address, landline etc. and I asked why. "If ever we need to verify when you return the phone".
I said "I have no plans to return the phone", thinking as I said it "So what's the problem with the paper receipt you are about to give me?".

Excepting for my name (I'm not a fast thinker), they got nothing personal.
It really is possible to have an unidentifiable cell-phone, just as one can purchase an unidentifiable ice-cream cone.

I find it hard to come up with a product (as distinct from a service) that requires my identity to make it useful to ME.

[BobH]

I'm reasonably certain that telephone numbers are 'owned' by entities other than those of us to whom they are assigned. I'm not a lawyer, but I suspect that there are rights and privileges that attend such ownership.

What I would like to know is what rights and privileges, if any, we who pay for the use of telephone numbers have at law. For example, when we are assigned a number and pay for the privilege of having it assigned for our use, does that then mean that we have any rights - or responsibilities, civil or criminal - to control how a number is used? Would it be possible to tell anyone asking for your phone number that they must provide a legal or other basis for demanding it?

I can see that some entity - say a bank or mortgage lender - might have a reasonable expectation of knowing how to contact you (though I don't know why a street address would not be sufficient) if you borrow money from them. But, do they have a reasonable expectation of knowing your employer's telephone number? How about your cellular phone number? Your parents' phone number(s)? Your siblings' phone numbers? Your next door neighbors' phone numbers? Why should one have to provide a telephone number to the state in exchange for the issuance of a driver's license? What if you don't have one; can you not get a license? What if you refuse to give one; can you be denied the license? What if you give a false number or fail to disclose any number at all? What if you get a different phone number?

I consider my phone number to be private - to be given only to those whom I want to know it or, in my opinion, need to know it. Do I have a right to that privacy? Do I have a right to any privacy? If not, maybe we need to redefine our rights. If so, what acts on my part abridge the right to privacy? This might seem unimportant, but I urge you all to re-read Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm.

Yes! I'm a crotchety old ****, but that at least means that I've been around long enough to have seen abuses. Remember, there was a time when it was extremely difficult for someone to steal your identity. "To err is human. To really screw up requires computers!"

I was on the phone today with 2 different companies: Apple Computers and Time Warner Cable. Both wanted my phone number before I could proceed with any customer service issue. In fact, I had to provide it to TW's VRU to get past the automation. When I spoke with Apple (trying to find out how to claim a bumper for my new iPhone4 - they didn't know, BTW), I gave the guy a ration of grief over using my phone number as a means to index and search their account records (my service is through AT&T, not Apple). I had to give my number but when I told him I wanted it removed from their records, he told me he was not authorized to do so. Naturally, I asked to speak with his supervisor or someone with more authority on this matter. I was placed on hold (with very irritating music-on-hold) and . . .


wait for it . . .


lost the connection before anyone came on the line!

NO WONDER JOBS SAYS THEY HAVE RECEIVED SO FEW COMPLAINTS!!!!

[viking33]

Got a little repetitious there for a while, Bob?

[ChrisGreaves]

Got a little repetitious there for a while, Bob?

The old are wise:

"To err is human. To really screw up requires computers!"

[ChrisGreaves]

So how do they extract enough info to track down a potential customer?

BTW, what made you decide to order a number 5 iron?

[Skitterbug]

Plenty of information in this thread! Some of it, I have done already and others of it I may consider doing.

Thinking about it, I may have unwittingly provided the info the contacting salesperson wanted, and then used but I'm not sure how I did? I was interested in the product initially and started filling out the web page which was supposed to be secure but I never submitted it since I canceled out of the transaction after typing in..... yes - HOLD for it...... the telephone number. Can this info be picked up from an unsent web page? Other than through nefarious web viruses, etc.?

Usually, I am very cautious so if this is the way they extracted my info, then I feel like a

[Leif]

Can this info be picked up from an unsent web page?

If you allowed scripts to run on the page, I would imagine almost anything is possible.

(You could always go through the motions again but this time fill in your neighbour's telephone number, and see if they mention getting an odd 'phone call.... )

[StuartR]

Why not try using Leif's phone number, I'm sure he wouldn't mind.

[Leif]

Here's a thought. Why not get a Premium-rate telephone number as your publicly-available number, and have a secondary number for friends and family? It would pay to stay all night talking to a cold caller!

(Otherwise, I am studiously ignoring Stuart's last answer, but it's given me an idea... :veryevilgrin: )

[Skitterbug]

Here's a thought. Why not get a Premium-rate telephone number as your publicly-available number, and have a secondary number for friends and family? It would pay to stay all night talking to a cold caller!

(Otherwise, I am studiously ignoring Stuart's last answer, but it's given me an idea... :veryevilgrin: )

You wouldn't be that evil, would you? :gasp: Maybe Stuart better change his number in a hurry!
BTW, I plan on never entering my telephone number again.

[ChrisGreaves]

BTW, I plan on never entering my telephone number again.

As society moves away from landlines ("this is the identity of where my family lives") to cell-phones ("this is my identity"), it will become increasingly difficult not to provide a telephone number as an identity.
Mass-marketing means that I am not so much "Christopher Greaves of 4340 Bloor Street West favoured companion of two cats" as I am 0011-1-416-621-9348 (or something).
Once we enter the phase of telephones-as-chips under our scalps and hard-wired into our brain, or unique phone number will be our identification.
P.S. My sister I think of my sister as 10-10-925-011-61-74061-7453

[BobH]

Here's a thought. Why not get a Premium-rate telephone number as your publicly-available number, and have a secondary number for friends and family? It would pay to stay all night talking to a cold caller!

Would this solution be cheaper than $1.00 per month after paying $40 setup fee? That's what Magic Jack costs me - $1.00 per month (I bought the 5-year plan for $60. I never turn the ringer on. Any calls that come to it forward to their voice mail system and they send me an email telling me that there is a message there, complete with link to their website where I can click on a button and hear any message that was left. Usually I see a connection time of less than a second then a disconnect, indicating that some autodialer detected the VM DNIS response and dropped the call.

Of course, this number can also be given to family and friends, and I do but only as a back up number in case they can't reach me on my cell phone for some reason. The VM and email notification feature makes it a near perfect screen for telemarketers.

It really is very slick for a phone service. I chose an out of state area code and the exchange and all numbers are owned by a LEC that leases the numbers out to Magic Jack. Only MJ can relate that number to me; so if it gets compromised in some way, I'll know who to go to for relief.

[ChrisGreaves]

It really is very slick for a phone service.

I suspect that it is very slick in certain areas with certain ISPs.
Here is a Wikipedia article that mentions PC-Mag downgrading an earlier review.
The Candian Distributor is here.
This Blog has a few derogatory comments about it, and points to a largely-venom-filled blog.

There seem to have been a few Candians "burned" by delays in shipping etc.

I suppose the usual Caveat Emptor applies here ...

[BobH]

It really is very slick for a phone service.

I suspect that it is very slick in certain areas with certain ISPs.
Here is a Wikipedia article that mentions PC-Mag downgrading an earlier review.
The Candian Distributor is here.
This Blog has a few derogatory comments about it, and points to a largely-venom-filled blog.

There seem to have been a few Candians "burned" by delays in shipping etc.

I suppose the usual Caveat Emptor applies here ...

Please note that I only use the Magic Jack number as a decoy and backup. Perhaps I was not clear enough in stating that in previous posts. I do not have a traditional land line because I would have a cell phone in any event and the costs of a land line are much higher than the costs of MJ. Based on this usage, the advertising and the number screening are moot points for me. I would not advocate using MJ as your primary means of telephone communications.