Bootable Windows image

[ChrisGreaves]

Following on from the thread Slipstream Software and having read Ghost Image vs. Cloning an HDD I find myself at an impasse.

I have an immediate objective to make a bootable Windows recovery CD/DVD.

I was able yesterday to slipstream my Windows XP SP2 CD with a downloaded SP3 file to make a bootable Windows XP SP3 installation CD. That should save me the hours of waiting for all the SP3 updates to download and install.

This morning I tried twice using Acronis (Trial version) to make a bootable image of my C: drive. That the image spans two DVDs may be part of my problem, but a raw Windows installation should fit on to one DVD.

The Acronis 2011 Home Trial version does not appear to be fully-fledged.
Ought I to be able to send about 4GB of a drive C: with a plain-jane version of Windows to a bootable DVD so that I can restore the entire C: drive with one-click, so to speak?

I confess to be a tad confused with Nero 6.3.1.25.

ImageBurn 2.5.2.0 worked for me yesterday and made a bootable disk, but that disk contained folders and files as distinct from what I think of as a binary bit-for-bit image of the sectors on my hard drive.

My incomplete Notes show the path I'm likely to take - two or more audit snapshots during the installation and customization process.

The first essential step seems to be that of creating a bootable Windows recovery CD/DVD.

I think that one of Acronis or ImageBurn should do the trick, but I can't see my way over the next hurdle. Advice and suggestions welcomed.

[StuartR]

There may be a terminology confusion here.

• Acronis can make a bootable CLONE of your system disk.
• If Acronis makes an IMAGE of your system disk then you can use that image to do a restore, but you cannot boot from the image, you have to restore it to a disk and then boot from that disk.

[DaveA]

I use a Bootable TrueImage program CD, with the image on a USB drive. Boot to the CD and restore image from USB drive to the hard drive. Works great and much faster than any CD/DVD usage.

[ChrisGreaves]

There may be a terminology confusion here.

Well, that's a novelty (grin)

• Acronis can make a bootable CLONE of your system disk.
• If Acronis makes an IMAGE of your system disk then you can use that image to do a restore, but you cannot boot from the image, you have to restore it to a disk and then boot from that disk.

Stuart, thanks for throwing light on my lack of comprehension.
Let's see if I can get a better grasp , at least for the purpose of this thread.


"a bootable CLONE of your system disk" would let me boot my laptop from the CD/DVD thus created and let me explore the drive C: on the laptop, perhaps for purposes of copying essential files to memory key or across my LAN to another hard drive, or to an external drive on a USB port.
In those senses it is truly a recovery disk, because it gives me the resources to recover folders/files when I can't boot from the laptop's hard drive, perhaps because I have run amok with the Delete key in Windows folders.

The bootable clone might let me RoboCopy files from the CD/DVD to the Laptop drive where a few accessible files had been deleted or corrupted in some way.

It would not, however, serve to let me restore the laptop's complete operating system from the CD/DVD.
In particular, it would not let me format Drive C: and then re-install Windows on that drive C: from the files on the bootable CD/DVD.

Nor would it allow me to boot on another computer, say my Big Beige Box, or the old IBM server, since those computers have a different hardware configuration in terms of just about everything. (That won't stop me experimenting, of course, if only to confirm my expectations of failure).




"an IMAGE of your system disk" means that I would run my (possibly corrupt) Windows from my Laptop, copy (with Acronis?) the image from CD/DVD as a file to the C: partition on my laptop hard drive, overwriting some files and creating those files I had (stupidly) deleted.
That is, I could restore the entire system from the CD/DVD to the Laptop hard drive, and providing the hard drive was still bootable, I'd be back with a "clean" and bootable operating system.

If I made an Image of my system disk tonight, then tomorrow morning I could install Win XP SP3 from the slipstreamed CD I made yesterday, creating a Microsoft plain-jane flavor bootable drive C:, and then restore my Laptop hard drive from the CD/DVD Image to bring me back to where I am at close-of-business today?



What follows is of academic interest only:

If I were performing this trick on my Big Beige Box which has IDE drives, I could use Acronis to make an IMAGE of the BBB system disk, and then copy this image to a second IDE drive which was already bootable. That is, I could make a spare IDE boot disk with a clean copy of Windows for the BBB.

Sadly the BBB has only a CD reader, so either (a) I can't use the BBB to burn an image or (b) I have to make Acronis make a CD on the laptop (which has a burner), telling Acronis to access the C: drive of the BBB across the LAN.
I'm guessing that this wouldn't work because the LAN probably won't allow a Laptop application to play around with many essential files on the drive C: of the BBB.

[ChrisGreaves]

I use a Bootable TrueImage program CD, with the image on a USB drive. Boot to the CD and restore image from USB drive to the hard drive. Works great and much faster than any CD/DVD usage.

Thanks Dave. This crossed posts with my reply to Stuart.

Let's see if I understand this:

(1) I use Acronis to make a bootable clone of the original WinXP SP3 installation, Microsoft plain-jane, no customization on my part, no applications. The purpose is solely to have a bootable Win XP CD/DVD.

(2) I use Acronis to make an image of my current system disk (drive C: on the laptop) to a USB key.
My biggest memory key right now is a 4GB key, so I am out of luck once my drive C content exceeds 4GB (or I go out and buy a 32GB USB drive and squeeze 2 or possibly 3 images on the drive)

When disaster strikes, I

(3) Boot from my CD/DVD
(4) Restore from the memory key and
(5) Go to bed early that night

[StuartR]

..."a bootable CLONE of your system disk" would let me boot my laptop from the CD/DVD thus created and let me explore the drive C: on the laptop, perhaps for purposes of copying essential files to memory key or across my LAN to another hard drive, or to an external drive on a USB port...

NO. A bootable clone would be on a normal hard drive, not on a CD/DVD. The purpose of the clone is to allow you to make a new bootable hard drive, in case you have a failing hard drive, or you want to replace it with a bigger disk. The only bootable CD/DVD you can make from Acronis TrueImage is a recovery CD/DVD that will allow you to restore an image to your hard drive.

In those senses it is truly a recovery disk, because it gives me the resources to recover folders/files when I can't boot from the laptop's hard drive, perhaps because I have run amok with the Delete key in Windows folders.

You could recover individual files by booting from an Acronis recovery CD/DVD and recovering files from an image backup.

It would not, however, serve to let me restore the laptop's complete operating system from the CD/DVD.
In particular, it would not let me format Drive C: and then re-install Windows on that drive C: from the files on the bootable CD/DVD.

You could do this by booting from the Acronis recovery CD/DVD and restoring your entire hard drive from an image.

Nor would it allow me to boot on another computer, say my Big Beige Box, or the old IBM server, since those computers have a different hardware configuration in terms of just about everything.

There is an Acronis product which will enable you to restore your image backup to a different hardware configuraton, it is called TrueImage Plus Pack

If I made an Image of my system disk tonight, then tomorrow morning I could install Win XP SP3 from the slipstreamed CD I made yesterday, creating a Microsoft plain-jane flavor bootable drive C:, and then restore my Laptop hard drive from the CD/DVD Image to bring me back to where I am at close-of-business today?

Yes

If I were performing this trick on my Big Beige Box which has IDE drives, I could use Acronis to make an IMAGE of the BBB system disk, and then copy this image to a second IDE drive which was already bootable. That is, I could make a spare IDE boot disk with a clean copy of Windows for the BBB.

Yes, or you could simply clone your existing hard disk to the second IDE drive.

Sadly the BBB has only a CD reader, so either (a) I can't use the BBB to burn an image or (b) I have to make Acronis make a CD on the laptop (which has a burner), telling Acronis to access the C: drive of the BBB across the LAN.
I'm guessing that this wouldn't work because the LAN probably won't allow a Laptop application to play around with many essential files on the drive C: of the BBB.[/color]

If you have another hard drive with enough free space for an image anywhere on your network then you can run Acronis on the BBB and create the image on the network drive. You could then boot a CD and restore from this network drive.

[DaveA]

I use a Bootable TrueImage program CD, with the image on a USB drive. Boot to the CD and restore image from USB drive to the hard drive. Works great and much faster than any CD/DVD usage.

Thanks Dave. This crossed posts with my reply to Stuart.

Let's see if I understand this:

(1) I use Acronis to make a bootable clone of the original WinXP SP3 installation, Microsoft plain-jane, no customization on my part, no applications. The purpose is solely to have a bootable Win XP CD/DVD.

(2) I use Acronis to make an image of my current system disk (drive C: on the laptop) to a USB key.
My biggest memory key right now is a 4GB key, so I am out of luck once my drive C content exceeds 4GB (or I go out and buy a 32GB USB drive and squeeze 2 or possibly 3 images on the drive)

When disaster strikes, I

(3) Boot from my CD/DVD
(4) Restore from the memory key and
(5) Go to bed early that night

Step three needs to be USB External hard drive, as most of these "thumb drives, key drives, or what ever one wants to call them" do not have enough space. Besides I do NOT trust them as well as I do the USB hard drives. With my Vista machine I was able to rebuild it with Vista SP2, Office 2003 SP3 and most of my other programs, in about 20 -30 minutes. I think a rebuild that I did one time with ALL data plus OS and programs took about 45-50 minutes. I have several External USB drives, starting at 160 gigs, and up to 2 TB. Some use external power, but most use the USB power. And yes, the TrueImage startup interface supports LARGE External drives.

So, yes, go buy yourself a GOOD sized USB External drive and save away. I have just bought a Seagate FreeAgent 1TB, that is 3/4 thick, 3 i/2 x 5 and is USB powered.Fits real nice in my laptop case, so I have it where ever I go. I paid $139.00 US at Fry's, here in Renton.

[ChrisGreaves]

... with the image on a USB drive.

Step three needs to be USB External hard drive, ...

Got it, thanks.
(Tomorrow I start my remedial reading classes OR purchase new glasses (grin!))

Saturday morning I plan to (backup and then) have a shot at the WinXP SP3 installation from my slipstreamed CD of yesterday.
Providing the installation weighs in at under 4GB I'll then take a shot at storing the image on my memory key; if the memory key fails it's really no big deal.
I'll make a change to the laptop C: drive, then try restoring from the memory key.
If that fails it's time to head off and buy (another) external drive. 500GB or more seems to be the order of the day here in The Frozen North.

[DaveA]

I have a 160 GIG drive that I burn a TrueImage on every time one of the kids or Grand kids bring their machine to be fixed. I saved a Cleaned up version when I first set up the machine and then burn one every time they bring them over. I have saved my self a ton of work by doing this.

One kept getting her machine messed up, who knows how, but the last time I had to order a set of CDs from HP, and since then I have been using this retired 160 gig drive just to save my self a lot of work and headaches.

[ChrisGreaves]

Well! This is confusing. Friday afternoon I was playing quite happily with Acronis 2011 Home (Trial), "ATIH2011_trial_en-US.exe".
This morning I formatted Drive C:, installed Windows from my slipstreamed Win XP SP3 disk and made several attempts to install Acronis. All failed.
I then thought that perhaps Acronis 2011 required the latest updates, so did the install-all-Windows-XP-updates thing, rebooted.
Nada.
Symptoms: I execute the file ATIH2011_trial_en-US.exe; I see an hour glass for about 2 seconds, then silence.
No pop-up message box, no error reporting. Nothing.

The copy of ATIH2011_trial_en-US.exe currently in use was downloaded from the Acronis site via iexplore early this afternoon, so it ought not to be corrupted by may shenanigans with DVS burning etc.

I'd appreciate any clues.

I'm ready to do the whole thing again Sunday, if I can get Acronis to lift off the ground.
(mutter, mutter, mutter ...)

I am doubly frustrated because yesterday it ran on this machine, same Op Sys etc.

[ChrisGreaves]

Well! This is confusing. Friday afternoon I was playing quite happily with Acronis 2011 Home (Trial), "ATIH2011_trial_en-US.exe".
This morning I formatted Drive C:, installed Windows from my slipstreamed Win XP SP3 disk and made several attempts to install Acronis. All failed.
I then thought that perhaps Acronis 2011 required the latest updates, so did the install-all-Windows-XP-updates thing, rebooted.
Nada.
Symptoms: I execute the file ATIH2011_trial_en-US.exe; I see an hour glass for about 2 seconds, then silence.
No pop-up message box, no error reporting. Nothing.

The copy of ATIH2011_trial_en-US.exe currently in use was downloaded from the Acronis site via iexplore early this afternoon, so it ought not to be corrupted by may shenanigans with DVS burning etc.

I'd appreciate any clues.

I'm ready to do the whole thing again Sunday, if I can get Acronis to lift off the ground.

(later) I have since discovered that ABS2010_trial_en-US.exe installs without a hitch. Hmmmm.
(mutter, mutter, mutter ...)

I am doubly frustrated because yesterday it ran on this machine, same Op Sys etc.

[viking33]

Symptoms: I execute the file ATIH2011_trial_en-US.exe; I see an hour glass for about 2 seconds, then silence.
No pop-up message box, no error reporting. Nothing.

You downloaded a second copy of ATI, AFTER the format, reinstall, etc.
How long did you wait while trying to install the trial copy?
Sometimes, ATI appears to be not doing anything and gives you a blank or black screen but then appears out of the blue and starting up OK.

[ChrisGreaves]

How long did you wait while trying to install the trial copy?

Thanks for the feedback, Bob.

I waited I'd say a good five minutes. Strange as this may sound, I have to force myself to be patient, and set up a second non-computer job, such as "separating worms from castings" on the other table; this forces me away from the computer table and gives things time to run.

I am fed up with Acronis. Apart from the fact that it sneaked a virus-protection package onto my machine when I wasn't paying attention, I made nine separate attempts to backup/restore my raw Windows installation (4.5 GB, which Acronis said would take only 2.56GB). Not one was succesful.
Sometimes Acronis would write, say it had finished, but the restore wouldn't find anything on the DVD; sometimes it complained it couldn't find Volume 1, when there was only a single DVD that was left sitting in the tray.

Acronis has sent me a lovely email asking how it went; I'm inclined to reply to it.

Tomorrow.

[ChrisGreaves]

I have a 160 GIG drive that I burn a TrueImage on every time ...

Thanks Dave. This is what I was trying to set up, but please see also my reply to Bob.
For some reason Acronis doesn't like me, although enough Loungers have recommended it to make me think it ought to be OK.
I think it sucked up about 1GB on my hard drive, for the used space went from 3.2GB to 4.165GB after the install. This pretty well guaranteed a multi-DVD backup after that first one, but I could have lived with that had it worked.

I use TWO external USB drives for backup; I might fall back to using one and have another shot at Acronis, backing up to a USB drive.

Next Weekend.
If it is raining.

[DaveA]

Chris,
Are you trying to do this with a "Trial" version, as stated in your earlier post?

Am not sure if the Trial version will allow one to do a restore of the image!

[ChrisGreaves]

Are you trying to do this with a "Trial" version, as stated in your earlier post?

Yes, Dave; I am/was.

Am not sure if the Trial version will allow one to do a restore of the image!

Oh, well silly me!
I thought that the trial would let me see how great it was at backup/restore before committing $ to it.

The two screens show
"Acronis TrueImage cannot detect Volume 1 of System_C_3_10_2010 archive"
and
"No items to display" on the DVD browser.

If they'd have said "This feature is not available in the trial version" I'd not have spent 1/2 the day trying to get past that hurdle!

Thanks for the heads-up.

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[viking33]

Quote from the Acronis site:
When testing a TRIAL version of True Image 2010.
"You can only recover/restore a backup when booted from an Acronis bootable media. Other options are disabled."

[ChrisGreaves]

"You can only recover/restore a backup when booted from an Acronis bootable media.

OK.
And I did try that.
In fact, my first steps yesterday morning were:

1. Format C:\
2. Install Win XP SP3 to the first stable reboot. (I call it a "raw" installation; no customization)
3. Make a backup DVD (appeared to work)
4. Make a bootable CD (worked)
5. Boot from the CD (worked)
6. Recover from the backup DVD (failed)

I wanted to see, immediately after the raw install of Win XP SP3 if I could backup and restore from a bootable medium.
I figured that if that worked, I'd install a bit more stuff, then repeat the recovery to satisfy myself that i could, in deed, roll back to an earlier installation.

I think that there must be something wrong with me, or with my hardware for it not to work.

I might try it all again next weekend, if my short-term memory can fail quickly enough (grin!)

[viking33]

"You can only recover/restore a backup when booted from an Acronis bootable media.

OK.
And I did try that.
In fact, my first steps yesterday morning were:

1. Format C:\
2. Install Win XP SP3 to the first stable reboot. (I call it a "raw" installation; no customization)
3. Make a backup DVD (appeared to work)
4. Make a bootable CD (worked)
5. Boot from the CD (worked)
6. Recover from the backup DVD (failed)

Forgive me if I'm being too simplistic here but I'm just trying to get it straight in my mind, as to how you did these steps.

1. After installing XP SP3...you then installed Acronis 2010 on the C: drive?

2.You then made a backup Image of the C: to a DVD? Did you look to see if there was then a huge file on the DVD with a file extension of xxxx.tib?

3. You made a bootable CD? From within ATI? Not another backup type?

4.The bootable DVD boots OK. Does it give you a standard Acronis splash screen and the option to Restore or Backup files? If it does and you tell it to restore, you would have to change DVDs at some point in order to let it find your backup image with the .tib extension.

This is how I've used TI for many years through many versions.

[ChrisGreaves]

Forgive me if I'm being too simplistic here but I'm just trying to get it straight in my mind, as to how you did these steps.

Viking, you are forgiven, and thanks so much for the step-by-step checklist.

1. After installing XP SP3...you then installed Acronis 2010 on the C: drive?
2.You then made a backup Image of the C: to a DVD? Did you look to see if there was then a huge file on the DVD with a file extension of xxxx.tib?

Yes I did, and there wasn't, at least on the first effort.
On later efforts I allowed TrueImage to generate its own name, and the file appeared.

3. You made a bootable CD? From within ATI? Not another backup type?
4.The bootable DVD boots OK. Does it give you a standard Acronis splash screen and the option to Restore or Backup files? If it does and you tell it to restore, you would have to change DVDs at some point in order to let it find your backup image with the .tib extension.

Yes and yes.

There is little doubt in my mind that Acronis TI works; Loungers can't be wrong. But somehow Acronis and I don't get along, probably because I was putting myself under so much pressure (plus other stuff happening Sat/Sun).

There is a time to step away and take a deep breath.
Last night I d/l another package, Terabyte's Image For Windows and gave it a quick spin. It created a bootable DVD, created a recovery partition on an external USB, and this morning created a bootable USB key!
I have to get back to work, but have set aside Saturday to do yet-another-rebuild ⁽¹⁾, and will try both Terabyte and Acronis in parallel. (Not to share each other's backup files, but to take advantage of the various stages in rebuilding a system.)

⁽¹⁾The good thing about rebuilds is that the trial period starts afresh!