Default Paragraph Font

[ChrisGreaves]

This is a philosophical question. Here are three threads that discuss the practical side of changing the default paragraph font:-
Changing Defaults in Word 2007
Word Style > Set Defaults
(re)defining the base font
If you need help in changing your Default Paragraph Font you will most likely find it somewhere in those three threads (and the links that they provide)

I happen to be using Word2003, but this is a philosophical question, so it applies to all word processors (not just MSWord) that maintain a hierarchical set of styles. AmiPro3.1 probably qualifies. PC-Write does not.

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As is my wont, I use Format, Styles to set up a new character style "csGreek", and I see that by default it is based on the Default Paragraph Font, which happens to be Times New Roman. I am tired of TNR and decide that from now on I want CourierNew.
Why not back out of here and change the Default Paragraph Font to be CourierNew? Well, (first image) Default Paragraph Font appears to be a style that cannot be modified. That puzzles me.

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Armed with an internet connection, I discover that I can change the Default Paragraph Font by choosing Font, Format, making changes and then clicking on the Default button.

I will spend the rest of my life pondering this design decision.

Question 1: Since, obviously, one can change the Default Paragraph Font, why not allow that change to take place in the Format Styles dialogue?
What possible piece of a word-processor could that break? You will allow me to change the Default Paragraph Font, but only if I go the Format Font route, rather than the Format Style route. Especially galling because you present the "style" Default Paragraph Font right there in the Format Style dialogue. What a tease you are!

This is not a question about where MSWord stores the change - in Normal.dot, even in WinWord.exe itself - I don't care where it is stored, because, obviously it will be stored. I am not concerned at whether my 15,288 DOCuments get updated or not. Just let me modify the Default Paragraph Font and let's get back to work.

More questions to follow, so if you can't come up with a rational mechanical reason for this, hang about for a few days.
Thanks
Chris

[HansV]

A character style will superimpose formatting on the formatting defined by the paragraph style of the selected text, whatever that may be - this is the "default paragraph style".
Let's take a character style csBold that specifies Bold text.
If the underlying paragraph style has 11 point Calibri standard, applying csBold will cause the text to be 11 point Calibri Bold.
But if the underlying paragraph style has 12 point Times New Roman Italic, applying csBold will cause the text to be 12 point Times New Roman Bold Italic.

So "default paragraph style" does not have a fixed meaning, and hence you cannot modify it.

[ChrisGreaves]

So "default paragraph style" does not have a fixed meaning, and hence you cannot modify it.

OK CleverClogs (grin!)

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I loaded WinWord.exe as usual and typed a line of text which showed up in TimesNewRoman.
I used (from the menu) Format, Font, selected CourierNew, and then "default", "Are you sure?", "yes"), typed a second line of text which showed up as CN, and then exited WinWord.exe

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The I ran WinWord.exe (I will stress, NOT my Word2003.bat that automatically restores my default Normal.dot, but WinWord.exe directly, as done by 99% of Word users) and in a new document typed some text which showed up as CourierNew.

Now: I would maintain that I have changed the Default Paragraph Font, since in a new instance of WinWord.exe and a new document (created by WinWord.exe) when I type new text it appears in my CN font - by default, and hence I CAN modify Default Paragraph Font.
Which I think you say I cannot do.

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Now here I am: Format, Style, "Normal", Modify, Normal, and the Default Paragraph Font is set to Courier New.

I can think of several responses, such as "Oh, but what you have really changed is the Normal style", but this has been achieved ONLY by being able to change the Default Paragraph Font - which, for a strange reason, cannot be done through the Style window which shows it, but has the Modify button disabled.

You want to move this Topic to the new "metaphysics" forum?

From a naïve user's point of view, we are told that we cannot modify the Default Paragraph Font, but it turns out that we can modify the Default Paragraph Font. No Registry Edit, no subtle batch files, nothing up my sleeve ...
Cheers
Chris

[BobH]

So, smoke and mirrors also work in Bonavista! Who knew!

[Charles Kenyon]

You may want to look at http://wordfaqs.ssbarnhill.com/DefParaFont.htm.

A better phrasing might be "the font in the underlying paragraph style." Every text in Word is in a paragraph style, even if there is direct formatting over it. By modifying the Normal style, you modify the Default Paragraph Font of text that is in the Normal style.

If you have a paragraph in the Normal style, select it, and format it all as Red and Bold, and then apply a character style to some text in that, neither the Red nor the Bold will be used, but the font settings for the Normal paragraph style will.

Chris: You may want to download this: http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/Le ... 202002.zip. As far as I know that is as close to a manual for Word 2002 as was published by Microsoft. It is the basis for my Users Guide website (http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/).

[Jay Freedman]

One other way to think about this: Applying the character style named Default Paragraph Font to text that has direct formatting applied to it has exactly the same effect as removing the direct formatting.

To see this in action, insert a paragraph of text in Normal style, and change its font to something distinctive, such as Old English and green color. Select a word or two in that paragraph and apply the Default Paragraph Font style to it. Next, select a different word and press Ctrl+spacebar, the shortcut for removing all direct font formatting. The results in the two locations are the same.

1.png

Using the Format Font > Save as Default button does something completely different: It saves the change into Normal style of the Normal.dot(m) template. (In later versions of Word, it can change only the Normal style in the current document, depending on your choice in a message box.) That in turn changes the font of all other styles that are based on Normal and don't have a different font specified in their definitions, which is the majority of them.

[ChrisGreaves]

So, smoke and mirrors also work in Bonavista! Who knew!

Smoke?
In Bonavista?
I doubt it, Bob. We are heading into another 24-hours of 100+Km/hr winds tonight.
Plays havoc with my Audacity recordings. You ever tried to edit out the sound of an express train in the background?

choo-choo-bar_3_2.png

On reflection, no free-standing mirrors, either.
Cheers
Chris

[Jay Freedman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-M-9S8d1LM

[ChrisGreaves]

You may want to look at http://wordfaqs.ssbarnhill.com/DefParaFont.htm.

Charles, i am sorry for the delay in responding. I have been on and off wrapping my head around the article. I think I have a better understanding of the Default Paragraph Font, and would appreciate any comments.

You may want to look at http://wordfaqs.ssbarnhill.com/DefParaFont.htm.

There is a character style named “Default Paragraph Font”
Despite its name, it is not a paragraph style; it is a Character style that will be used as a font by the Default Paragraph Style.
There is a default paragraph style named “Normal”.
This is a paragraph style, and the font that it uses will be the character style named “Default Paragraph Font”.

DeafultParagraphFont001.png

On my system right now, the character style “Default Paragraph Font” has been defined as Times New Roman, so a paragraph of text assigned the paragraph style “Normal” will appear in Times New Roman style.

DeafultParagraphFont002.png

Another paragraph style I use I named “Body text”, and while it was, and is, based on the “Normal” paragraph style with its default paragraph font of Times New Roman, I have changed the font of Body Text to be Arial.

If I ever work for a company again and that company insists on, say the Garamond font, then I could change my default paragraph font (Format, Font, Garamond, Default) to Garamond and acknowledge that any future documents based on the Normal template will be affected - although we are not told in what specific way the new documents will be affected.

From this time on, creating a new document based on the Normal template, and typing in the Normal paragraph style will show text in Garamond font, for that is now the default font for paragraphs using the Normal style.
From this time on, creating a new document based on the Normal template, and typing in the Body Text paragraph style will continue to show text in Arial font, for that is the font for paragraphs using the Body Text paragraph style. And the definition of Body Text is unchanged; it is still "based on Normal BUT with Arial font"

“In Word 2007 and above, ... confusion about the Default Paragraph Font, though it may still arise, is not generated by the Styles display, since the DPF listing is hidden by default....”
Confusion reigns in Word2003 as well, because as I pointed out, the character style named “Default Paragraph Font” shows up in the Styles box, but modifying this character style is disabled, which is what leads to my initial question of “why show a font that cannot be changed through this dialogue?”. The character style named “Default Paragraph Font”

DeafultParagraphFont003.png

“In Word 2002 and 2003, the Style list and Styles and Formatting task pane do not list Default Paragraph Font by default.” Makes little sense to me, since as shown above, the Default Paragraph Font IS listed, but we can neither Delete or Modify that character style. So why list it?.

If you have a paragraph in the Normal style, select it, and format it all as Red and Bold, and then apply a character style to some text in that, neither the Red nor the Bold will be used, but the font settings for the Normal paragraph style will.

I am meeting this type of conflict now in the book by JSMill. There are chunks of footnote text which I seek out and modify in a character style csFootnote. And there are chunks of Greek text which I seek out and modify in a character style csGreek.
And, of course, there is Greek text within the footnotes.
I run my StyleFootnotes macro first because a footnote paragraph is a much larger block of text than the few Greek words or phrases within it.
I run my StyleGreek macro last because the few Greek words or phrases are vitally important to a third party, the member who reads the Greek aloud to me.

Cheers
Chris

[Charles Kenyon]

I wish I could be more help, but I am no longer able to load Word 2003, nor Word 2002, nor Word 97, even though I have installation disks for all of them.

[ChrisGreaves]

I wish I could be more help, but I am no longer able to load Word 2003, nor Word 2002, nor Word 97, even though I have installation disks for all of them.

Oh that's OK Charles; in this thread i wasn't looking for a specific "solution to a problem" as much as a better understanding of the terminology.
Thanks
Chris