Microsoft Windows Updates. Deleting. Restoring

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Doc.AElstein
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Microsoft Windows Updates. Deleting. Restoring

Post by Doc.AElstein »

Hi
I am Looking into Microsoft Windows Updates just now. . ...At this stage I am trying to get a bit more informed about the subject before I start doing anything…..
I am reading up a bit on it
Mostly the information seems to be on how to remove updates. That seems simple enough

I have not done anything yet apart from getting a way to list of them conveniently ( https://www.eileenslounge.com/viewtopic ... 72#p244479" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )

So, I have some general questions
_ Q 1 I have some old updates for software that I no longer use. For example. On some older machines I have Microsoft Security Essentials . Microsoft Security Essentials is not supported on those older machines and it doesn’t work anymore if I try to use it. So I was thinking of de installing it and then deleting all the updates. Can anyone think of any reason that I should not do that ?
_ Q 2. Is there any simple way I could somehow “store an update”, so that I could delete it, and then put it back after. I expect that might be a stupid question. I doubt I really understand the subject of updates… I do know that I can find the odd update or two somewhere on the internet and download it. But I expect a lot of the updates that I will be looking at are very old, and probably not available anywhere …
or
_ Q 3 is there anywhere a complete list of updates from where you can download any of them ?

_ General question also : -
If anyone has any other experience with Updates or any general information about them they feel like sharing then I would be very interested. I only once before deleted an update, and it seemed like a very good thing to do ( https://www.eileenslounge.com/viewtopic ... 05#p243013" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) , so I thought it might be interesting to delete a few more. In particular I have been unable to get something working on many computers , old and new… By chance I powered up an old computer which had similar specifications to many others I have, and low and behold, everything works on that one computer… so that’s what started me thinking about deleting updates to see if then the thing started working on my other computers.
I haven’t started yet. I am trying to get a bit more informed about the subject generally before I start wildly hacking out all my updates … :-)

Thanks
Alan

_._______________________________________________________________



P.s. This is just to answer the question more fully of why I am doing this in case anyone asks……

I have not been able to get ActiveX worksheet controls ( ActiveX controls embedded in a worksheet ) to work in Excel 2003. ( https://tinyurl.com/yc4ea2n2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) . I have tried many independent instillations of Office 2003 , ( and tried many deinstallation and reinstallation etc.. etc.. ) on different computers ranging from older XP machines through Vista machines and a couple of fairly new Win 7 machines. I have read at least 90% of all the internet information about ActiveX control problems , and I think I have tried all the published cures, ( https://tinyurl.com/yc4ea2n2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) which, amongst other things include deleting some updates.
By chance I dug out an old Note book that had not been used for some time. I tried a number of different instillations of both Office 2003 and Office 2010 on that old machine, ( and tried many deinstallation and reinstallation etc.. etc.. ). In every case I have not had problems and I can get on that old machine ActiveX controls embedded in a worksheet to work.
Because the old machine was not on the internet for many years, I am wondering if some other updates over the last few years kill ActiveX worksheet controls in Excel 2003 and no one has noticed yet….
\ -_- / :heavy:

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stuck
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Re: Microsoft Windows Updates. Deleting. Restoring

Post by stuck »

"Keep it simple" is an old adage. What you are suggesting does not sound simple. I wouldn't do it. If I had complex issues with a system I'd wipe the lot and reinstall from scratch:
1) base OS
2) all OS updates
3) just the applications I actually use
4) application updates

Ken

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Doc.AElstein
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Re: Microsoft Windows Updates. Deleting. Restoring

Post by Doc.AElstein »

Hi Ken,
Thanks for the reply
Form me as a computer Laymen, those 4 things seem extremely complicated. I would probably spend a month and make a total mess, at least with the first one. The other 3 are similar to what I am proposing to do. ( 3) have already been doing that . It hasn't had any effect on the problem )

Take _1) for example:
Operating system disks have generally not been supplied with new computers for over 20 years here.
A while back I thought it would be a good idea to “wipe a computer clean” and start a fresh, by re installing an operating system. I had a few forum Threads on it , asking for help. A lot of people thought it should be easy. It wasn’t. I gave up.
A year back I went to a local dealers. I said he could sell me any computer, and I would even pay extra if he could
-a) guarantee that I could re install the Operating System on the computer
and
b) show me how to do that.
He laughed and said it was easy. He had his best people working on it for a month, then gave up.
Theoretically it should be possible. In the practice there are often unforeseen problems that might be easy for a real computer expert to overcome, but for me would be impossible to overcome.
A lot of Computers are designed to be throw away after a few years like your smart phone. Re installing your operating system is likely not to be easily possible.
I don’t know how to do 2) , and 4) either. That was one of my questions, or rather my questions 2) and 3) I suppose - how to get hold of the updates again if I remove them
Possibly an option could be to delete all updates. I don't know if that would be so wise. In any case I would still need an answer to my Q2 and Q3 before I do that.

Thanks anyway
Alan
\ -_- / :heavy:

JoeP
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Re: Microsoft Windows Updates. Deleting. Restoring

Post by JoeP »

Re: your original post.

1.) If you have software installed you don't use anymore uninstall it. The updates should be uninstalled with the software. If they are not them uninstall them. Be sure to backup your system before beginning significant changes.

2.) Go to the Microsoft Update Catalog. Search for the product you want. Download the fixes you need. This is going to be a long drawn out process. You'll need to figure out which changes you need before starting the download process. I suggest that if you want to uninstall a particular patch look for that one in particular.

3.) There is no comprehensive list of all fixes available to the public. The closest you can get for Microsoft products is to search the update catalog.

NOTE: I suggest that this sort of activity is a huge job and pretty much a waste of time. There are many complications in patch management, Some patches have pre-requisites. Others supersede prior patches. Others may have been superseded by later patches. Not all of this is documented in the patches.

If you have a specific problem you should try to correct it. If you think Ken's suggestion is complicated wait until you try to do manual patch juggling.
Joe

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Re: Microsoft Windows Updates. Deleting. Restoring

Post by Doc.AElstein »

Hi Joe,
Thanks very much for the reply
_1) Re ..“.. uninstall it. The updates should be uninstalled …. If they are not then uninstall…”.. I had a feeling that might be the answer, but it is very helpful when someone who knows what they are talking about confirms that – otherwise I am nervous about getting rid of anything. Also I am a computer messy and have all sorts of junk on my computer … in this case I will suppress my messy tendencies now and delete some stuff.. that will make it easier to go through comparing updates on the different computers.
Re …”… backup your system…” ..there seems to be a few ways to do that… I did once get it clear in my mind all the different ways.. I forgot now… but …
I have got myself out of problems sometimes by doing the …”..restoring to an earlier time..” thing. ( Also I once looked at recovery discs ( http://eileenslounge.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=28618" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , http://www.eileenslounge.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=25735" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) but I forgot all that now. Maybe I will take another look.. )
If I am not mistaken , it appears the system restore will put back any updates that I take out. So I may have another possible answer to my 2) – I could use system restore to put back any updates that I remove. But this would get a bit tedious and time consuming…
Re….”… Be sure to backup your system before beginning significant changes…” .. A question on you please .. : rather than do any backing up specifically , would it be sufficient to check that I have available some restore points a day or so before ??

2) Thanks for the info on the Microsoft Update-Katalogs. I had not found that on searches.

3) Thanks again. Useful to know so that I don’t waste more time looking.

_._________________________________
JoeP wrote:...If you have a specific problem you should try to correct it..
The sort of problem I have, and others, have often been corrected successfully by removing updates. All the other reported cures to my current problem I have tried without success..
JoeP wrote:... If you think Ken's suggestion is complicated wait until you try to do manual patch juggling.
Considering that some computer professional can’t re install an operating system, then for now, I still think Ken's suggestion is complicated, and possibly for me personally, more complicated than what I was proposing. – If I wipe my computer, then I will probably wipe it out…. Permanently … I suppose that would get rid of the problem, but not quite in the way that I was hoping.
_.____
I have just started getting my lists together in a single Excel file , based on the stuff here https://www.eileenslounge.com/viewtopic ... 72#p244479" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I am mildly competent at VBA in sorting, searching and similar… I bought some more installation disks for Office 2003. ( I already have lots of licences for Office 2007-2010 ). I am going to try and get hold of some other computers and do some Office 2003 installations. I have many computers now where the ActiveX controls embedded in a worksheet are not working. I am hoping to get some more computers going where they do work. I was thinking then that I can programmatically do a bit of comparing / sorting etc.. of updates installed , then that may help narrow things down a bit..
We will see… I will post back and update …. On the update situation…

Alan
\ -_- / :heavy:

JoeP
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Re: Microsoft Windows Updates. Deleting. Restoring

Post by JoeP »

If you have a computer pro who can't clean install an OS I would suggest that is not much of a computer pro.

It seems to me that if you are having an ActiveX problem it is most likely a security issue. Security was tightened significantly around ActiveX a long time ago. Maybe searching for ActiveX security problems in Excel would help you.
Joe

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Re: Microsoft Windows Updates. Deleting. Restoring

Post by Doc.AElstein »

JoeP wrote:… Security was tightened significantly around ActiveX a long time ago. Maybe searching for ActiveX security problems in Excel ….
Thanks , that sort of info will probably help me narrow things down a bit.
JoeP wrote:.. a computer pro who can't clean install an OS … not much of a computer pro.
I expect there is possibly a bit more to it all than that. There are all sorts of pre installed stuff on most new computers, and mostly they are not intended to last too long, and so I don’t think wiping a computer clean really fits in with the long term scheme of things, so I expect getting professional help to do that sort of thing will become increasingly difficult.

Alan
\ -_- / :heavy:

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Re: Microsoft Windows Updates. Deleting. Restoring

Post by JoeP »

I disagree. Any computer pro worth his/her salt can clean install an OS. Most of the extra software put on computers can be left off if a clean install is done. An experienced computer pro would know this. As long as drivers are available a clean install should be no problem. With Windows 10, there is an expansive set of basic drivers which will get the majority of hardware running. You just may not get all the functionality of the device especially if a PC vendor had something "special" done to it.
Joe

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Re: Microsoft Windows Updates. Deleting. Restoring

Post by Doc.AElstein »

Hi Joe,
I wasn’t necessarily meaning that the computer pros weren’t capable of it. ( At least not currently. I would hazard a guess that in the future the trend will be to have a system / software all in one package and any form of repair , including a re install just wouldn’t be practical and also it possibly would not possible as there would not be the possibility to get the installation software … but that’s future stuff. )
The situation in Germany currently is that a large amount of the new computers come with Windows 10 and all sorts of software on them. In many cases, the computer handler is part of a large chain and they will have all the same software package. It is obvious when you look at the computer and compare with the similar device from a few years back they are not intended to last too long. The keyboard and touch pad clearly are of a more cheap waggley sort of standard.
But their increased speed over the computers from a few years ago allows a whole lot of stuff to be going on in the background, especially when you are on the internet. It doesn’t do to talk too much about these things here . We have an unusually strict data protection laws here , that just got stricter. I expect if a lot of people knew what their computers were doing “behind their back” then all hell would be loose here.

The example with me that I noted. The local salesman was dead keen to get the sale that I suggested. The handler is part of a large chain and boasted that he could call on a country wide pool of computer pros. That is probably why it came out that he could not do what I wanted: I doubt he is privi to what exactly they are installing on the computers. I doubt many are, but his request was noticed by someone that probably is privy to that info. I don’t think they would want anyone messing around with what is on the computers they sell.
I did actually get with some forum help some way along doing a clean wipe of a second new computer which I actually had here in front of me, and to which the same deal was made with the handler. He even gave me access to several files on his server and instructions on using them to do a re instillation. But I always hit a brick wall when I got a message somewhere saying words to the effect ..”This is a special instillation only possible at the handler – please contact them” I did. He gave me my money back and a quite a bit on top to get the computer back…

I expect it might come out in a few years what most people’s computers are up to currently without their knowledge. By then no one will care, as their current computer would have long since found its way in a container with their last two smart phones to Africa. There some bare foot African who probably knows at least as much as a profi here what’s gone on, will be wiping it well clean. ( Or using it to wipe well clean his bottom, :-) )

It sounds from what you have said that someone like you, Joe, might be able to get something close to a re instillation done on some new computer here. Clearly from my experience it is not possible for Joe Public. Also if you were actually employed here , it might well be that you would not be very keen to do it , other than for your own personal use….

I am not as critical of the situation as I might sound. I expect I may soon buy a new computer , accepting that I will trash it in a year or two. ( I am just trying to find one with a nice blue color to match my VW Bus actually ) But I just would also in parallel like to get a set of computers going that I am confident in doing a lot with and getting them working when they break. A sort of “Belt and Bracers approach”. Like having a new car with a mobility guarantee that you trade in for the latest model every year , and also having an old jeep ( or VW bus in my case ) that you know inside and out and can always fix and get running yourself .
_._________________

Anyway, I got some more office 2003 CDs in the post today and have just done an instillation on a computer that was not on line for a while.. and the ActiveX controls embedded in a worksheet are working !!! That make 2 similar machines with them working and 9 similar machines where they are not. If I can get some more going where the ActiveX controls embedded in a worksheet are working then I may have it easier to compare programmatically the difference in their updates and so have it easier when I start trying out taking out updates

Thanks for the reply
I will update on me update experiments if I get anywhere…

Alan
\ -_- / :heavy:

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Re: Microsoft Windows Updates. Deleting. Restoring

Post by Doc.AElstein »

Hi,
I seem to have solved my main problem ( for now… ) , which was the reason for starting this Thread.
So here are some comments that might be of interest or may even be useful for anyone catching this Thread on a search…
I only intend summarising here. More detail is at other referenced Posts

Some general comments on Updates.
Listing Updates
It does not appear that there is any easy way to accurately determine the updates present on a computer. The various methods I have investigated give differing results. Not all methods list all the same updates. Monitoring changes made does not seem to be possible. The most reliable method seems to be a very time consuming semi manual approach of looking through the list found in something like a system control software/ update list . This does not seem to be something that any sane person would do.
I have been doing this, and will continue to do so and may update this post from time to time, or maybe start another somewhere titled “Bad Updates…”
Here are details to the only two automated ways I know to get update lists. These previous Threads I have just edited with some new info…
https://www.eileenslounge.com/viewtopic ... 72#p244479" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.eileenslounge.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=28682" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Finding “Bad Updates”
I had been bugged for some time by ActiveX embedded in a worksheet controls in Excel 2003 not working. I thought I was aware of, and tried, all the cures already suggested for when Office Update breaks ActiveX controls. It is well known that around December 2014 there was a major issue. I seem to have missed all that fun, having never experienced any problems with my Excel 2007 or 2010 in this area. My interest was looking initially at the effect of removing updates on the broken ActiveX embedded in a worksheet controls in Excel 2003, as this was often suggested as one way to cure the problem ( http://www.excelfox.com/forum/showthrea ... em-*SOLVED* , https://tinyurl.com/y99rw488" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . While I was doing this some updates paralysed a lot more on some XP *** machines of mine ( http://www.eileenslounge.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=31405" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )
So I decided to try and identify “bad” updates

“Good” / “Bad” Update lists.
A more detailed report on what I have done is here: http://www.excelfox.com/forum/showthrea ... #post10920 , https://tinyurl.com/ybgqrjdh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Briefly I have done both manually and using coding to cross check, sort, investigate the effect of updates on ActiveX embedded in a worksheet controls in Excel 2003 in a number of computers with varying software and with varying Operating systems . As time went on I was able to build up a very large “OK” update list, and a small number of potentially “bad” updates

“Bad Updates”
I am sure a lot of people much smarter than me will be outraged by my naivety here. But this is what I am saying for now until I know better… .. These updates listed below are bad. Starting from the top as priority order, get rid of them, or at least consider it if you are having issues with ActiveX embedded in a worksheet controls in Excel 2003.
KB3054873
KB2965286
KB2920813
KB4011203
KB2920794

KB2553154
KB2965291



KB2596744
KB2687441
KB2817330
KB3118304
KB3141535
KB3191837
KB3203436
KB3213640



KB974554


( *** For the XP issue specifically, check here: http://www.eileenslounge.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=31405" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , http://www.eileenslounge.com/viewtopic. ... 05#p244958" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )



Alan
_................... :flee:


https://stackoverflow.com/questions/291 ... 4#54350074" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
\ -_- / :heavy: