Recycle computer parts

[viking33]

I'm tossing this out for comments or other input.
Around my area and other locations, there is a site called Freecycle,
sponsored by Yahoo. Here, people can offer items of any type for free,
or post items they want to acquire. The locations are local, so people just arrange to pick them up.
It's really amazing what things are posted and it seems no matter what, someone
picks them up or says, sure I have one of those.
The big advantage is that it not only supplies a want BUT it keeps tons of things out of the
dumps or landfills. True green!

My thought is: why can't we do something similar here in the Lounge, only just applying to
computer products? A forum called maybe "Recycle Bin" or whatever.
Someone always is looking for some piece of hardware or accessory and I'm pretty sure most
of us have a few boxes of "spare" parts sitting around collecting dust.
Offer them up for free to any Lounger and just PM them with the postage costs, to be paid on
the honor system. Or just forget the postage and be a nice person and send it out.

Thoughts?

[HansV]

I'll discuss it with the other admins, but this might be more suitable for a locally oriented website than for an international discussion forum. I don't see myself shipping my old printer to Australia...

[viking33]

I'll discuss it with the other admins, but this might be more suitable for a locally oriented website than for an international discussion forum. I don't see myself shipping my old printer to Australia...

Thanks for the consideration.
I really didn't have things like old printers to Australia or such. Within the USA at least, the Post Office now has flat rate shipping for a few bucks to anywhere in the US, no matter what the weight, just if it fits in their box, it ships. Definitely worth it for example, a hard drive or plug in card, cables or CD/DVD and such.
Benefits are to our Loungers, not an open public site.

[John Gray]

Bob

We have exactly the same Freecycle system here in the UK, and the reason it works well is because it is local, and so people can pick up offered Stuff at minimal cost to themselves and the planet. I have a couple of old but good quality cassette radios which someone might be able to use (probably just as radios!), for example, and sending them by post anywhere, even just in the UK, would cost several times what they are worth. (I suspect your US postal rates are lower than UK ones!) Conversely, I have sent someone by post some mis-dispensed blood glucose test strips (which the pharmacist could not take back into stock) but that was worth it because of small size and high value.

[HansV]

Bob,

The admins appreciate your suggestion, and we do think your idea has merits, but after some discussion we have decided that such a forum is not really suitable for an international discusssion board such as Eileen's Lounge. It'd work much better on a local scale.

[ChrisGreaves]

I'm tossing this out for comments or other input.

But see also Recycling electronics as easy as taking out the trashto which I replied:
Dear Sir,
I take issue with the article "Recycling electronics as easy as taking out the trash" by Jennifer Kavur 30 Mar 2010 For: ComputerWorld Canada which appears in both your online and print editions.

In particular the phrase "just became easier for Ontario residents" in the opening paragraph seems to me to be as twisted a bit of reasoning as I might ever fear to discern in a journal aimed at technically-literate readership.
I base my assertion on the following challenge: Classify the following list into Phase 1 and Phase 2 types without referring to your copy of ComputerWorld Canada:
Cell Phones, Computers, Digital Cameras, Disk Drives, DVD Players, Fax Machines, Keyboards, Mice, Monitors, MP3 Players, Printers, Radios, TVs, VCRs.
How did you score?
And you are The Editor.
How do you think the average IT guru will score? (It's time to wander around the office and do a snap test of your fellow-producers who, presumably, read ComputerWorld Canada).
And how do you think Joe Bloggs will score.
Or will Joe Bloggs will continue to do what Joe Bloggs has been doing for years - toss it into a black garbage bag because the rules and filters are just too complex.

Toronto has a solid twenty years history of documented complaints from end-users about not being sure what can be put into the blue/grey/green/yellow/purple box.
To the average consumer, an electronics device is a collection of precious metal encased in a plastic-covered metal jacket.
Why should they care?

Jennifer Kavur is capable of finding a real solution - better filtering techniques downstream, rather than placing the logic of filtering on the consumer who is, as the advertising media will agree, is just a cash-dispensing rabbit.

I might raise the absurdity of "167 locations across the province" at a later time, but I'll serve notice that http://shoppingfinder.ca/cp-38-OntarioShopping.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; lists 573 Ontario Shopping Centres and Shopping Malls, and that does not include small electronics stores in strip plazas across Ontario.

...
and then note in today's "Star": Recycled computers, televisions still ending up in dumps


(signed) "Grumpy" of Toronto.

[Leif]

There's absolutely no point in anonymously signing yourself as "Grumpy" - it's a well known fact that no-one else in Canada writes letters in that shade of purple

But I must admit (albeit that I know nuffin' of the intricacies of your blue/grey/green/yellow/purple boxes) you do appear to have a sound argument...

[ChrisGreaves]

... writes letters in that shade of purple

I was actually looking for a shade closer to "violent"

... I know nuffin' of the intricacies of your blue/grey/green/yellow/purple boxes

Not true (grin!). You know that we have them. I remember an older guy, 75, almost in tears one day at the side of the street; he didn't know whether to put a collection of books in the newspaper box (grey, I think) or the blue box (general recycling). I told him to take them to a second-hand book store, and lately they have all been folding up shop and going online.

I am recorded in the Gawler "Bunyip", 1972, for my efforts at recycling, so I boast that my efforts go back a long way; my current niche is "design of efficient tower vermicomposters for cold-climate apartment dwellers", so I claim to be deeply conscious of waste-less efforts.
If someone like me can get confused, what hope is there for people like, well, you, who claims to know nothing of the "intricacies of your blue/grey/green/yellow/purple boxes"?

I'd like to see a scheme where every store that sells some hardware device has to issue a coupon authorizing the purchaser to return with some other hardware device for disposal.
in the case of delivered items (stoves, refrigerators etc) the coupon would apply to the pickup of a similar heavy item on the return trip.
If the sellers were made responsible for part of the disposal stream, things would change.

Next: Let's bring back the deposit on bottles and cans.
And paper cups.
And foam food containers.

[Leif]

If the sellers were made responsible for part of the disposal stream, things would change.

In the European Union, the Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment Directive puts the (or at least some of the) responsibility on the manufacturer...

[ChrisGreaves]

In the European Union, the Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment Directive ...

For sure.
And then I read this bit "5. Without prejudice to paragraph 1, Member States shall ensure that by 31 December 2006 at the latest a rate of separate collection of at least four kilograms on average per inhabitant per year of WEEE from private households is achieved.", which sounds good in principle - Management Measures - but reminds me of Toronto's efforts at boosting the green-waste recovery figures to reach a stated goal, and this was achieved, in part, by cutting off the supply of household composters in order to boost the tonnage of green-waste collection from the green bins. Thereby increasing the number of diesel trucks on the streets.
Aarrgh
(signed) "Seeing Red" of Toronto.

[BobH]

I'd like to see plastic bottles, jars, etc for food packaging banned from the planet. These damnable things will be around forever contaminating the seas and roadsides. At least glass - if not recycled - will eventually corrode back to silica from which it sprang.

I'm old enough to remember when all (glass) soft drink bottles could be redeemed for 2¢ (in the US). Deposits would have to be considerably higher today, but they would encourage return if sufficiently high. The problem, however, is that the supply chain now consists of mega-marts and C-stores, neither of which is equipped with the means of dealing with deposit claims nor the storage and shipment of returns. I believe that any solution involving deposits will have to address these supply chain issues effectively (in addition to overcoming the manufacturers' lobbies and political payola).

Another approach to discourage using plastic for containers would be to apply very high taxes - called waste disposal fees - to these products at the point of manufacture. This would prevent manufacturers from avoiding the real costs of product disposal and from passing those costs along in the supply chain ultimately making the environment the payer of last resort. Again, there will be predictable economic and political resistance from the manufacturers and also from those who use the attributes of plastics to better protect, showcase, and promote their wares - with the environment bearing the costs as payer of last resort.

Does anyone have comparative information on the energy expended to manufacture plastic containers versus those made of glass (for products where paper is inadequate, of course)?

Alas, almost no one produces anything to be sold without packaging any more. Yes, we can still buy some fruits and vegetables without packaging but even that section of the grocery store is now populated with many items packaged with materials not biodegradable.

Maybe I'm just a neo-Luddite.

[ChrisGreaves]

... prevent manufacturers from avoiding the real costs of product disposal ...

I think this is a core point.
It is too easy for manufacturers to include the cost of supplying and applying packaging in the purchase price, but leave the cost of disposal to the municipalities, i.e. the consumer. The argument runs that, since the consumer pays in the end, why not slap the cost up front and, perhaps, discourage the consumer.
Of course, that would never work in a consumer-oriented society.
One can, however, steadily work one's way upstream by giving consumers a choice between packaged and non-packaged goods. If consumers indicate a preference for non-packaged, then the market will shift away from packaging.

FWIW we now pay 5c for a plastic shopping bag in Toronto (Ontario?), and there is a subtle shift towards using your own bag (accompanied by the gnashing of teeth from bag suppliers!).

(1) I have almost run out of handy plastic bags that hold my garbage - not that I have much of that anyway

(2) Since every man and his dog now hands out sturdy re-usable carrier bags, I am building up quite a collection of these. I shall probably stop at a dozen and start using the extras as garbage bags.

(3) In Paris in 1980, like everyone else, I carried my string bag curled up in my pocket, to the markets. How did I get weaned away from that when I landed in Canada?

[DaveA]

Since plastic is a by-product in the making of gasoline, what is going to be done with this "left-over" that it is made from?
Also, why is it that it takes to much petroleum to make plactic, but not comment about the gasoline and products that is made first?

Petroleum to Plastics
The technological road from oil field to finished plastic product has numerous fascinating side trips. Here’s the route taken in the petroleum-to-plastics process:

1. Petroleum is drilled and transported to a refinery.
2. Crude oil and natural gas are refined into ethane, propane, hundreds of other petrochemical products and, of course, fuel for your car.
3. Ethane and propane are "cracked" into ethylene and propylene, using high-temperature furnaces.
4. Catalyst is combined with ethylene or propylene in a reactor, resulting in "fluff," a powdered material (polymer) resembling laundry detergent.
5. Fluff is combined with additives in a continuous blender.
6. Polymer is fed to an extruder where it is melted.
7. Melted plastic is cooled then fed to a pelletizer that cuts the product into small pellets.
8. Pellets are shipped to customers.
9. Customers manufacture plastic products by using processes such as extrusion, injection molding, blow molding, etc

[BobH]

Are you certain that there would be left over product if plastics for disposable bottles and bags were not produced? Would the ethanol or propane from which they are made not be used for other purposes? What about the injected 'fluff' product? Does it have other productive uses? And what about the carbon footprint of the plastic production process? Saving however much or little it consumes would be beneficial, methinks.

I'm old enough to remember a time when there was almost no plastic used. (No, I was not born before The Flood! I was 21 when Kennedy was shot.) There certainly was not much plastic used in throw-away packaging.

I might be a neo-Luddite, but I believe that even at my advanced age and frailty of mind and body that I could do without about 90% of the plastic packaging without suffering one iota.

[ChrisGreaves]

I'm old enough to remember a time when there was almost no plastic used.

Bob, I agree with your sentiments. I like to add balance (which I feel confident you would embrace) that plastic, like many other material of the New Age, have their great uses, but all too often they are abused.
I like plastic dishes/mugs for toddlers, for example.

[DaveA]

I to have been around for some time. I was stationed in Germany the Day Kennedy was shot.
We were on the firing line with 12 8 inch guns loaded, could not fired them, as tradition would not allow it. Had to pound those rounds out of the chamber with a "Bell Star" and a sledge hammer, 6 hours later ALL rounds were out a in a save condition.

Back to the question. What gets my hair up, it is always stated that by NOT making plastic, we would be saving umpteen barrels a day of Crude.

[ChrisGreaves]

I was stationed in Germany the Day Kennedy was shot.

... and Bang, in a manner of speaking, goes my latest conspiracy theory.

... it is always stated that by NOT making plastic, we would be saving umpteen barrels a day of Crude.

Quite so. Same level of argument that says electric streetcars are clean because they don't burn coal/diesel/nuclear.